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Always mildly annoyed by this type of meme.
First and foremost: Gotham is fucked. Like… really fucked. Evil secret societies run the place, the water supply is very likely poisoned in various ways, both conventionally and naturally, there’s ancient evils buried under the city that have been corrupting it for centuries, a portal to hell in the asylum. We can say “Oh surely a food bank would help” and Wayne absolutely does do that via foundations in both of his parents names… but all the shit to erase systemic poverty in the world can exist and The Joker, Zsasz, Mr. Pyg, The Court of Owls, Solomon Grundy, and the like are still going to be doing their shit (Not to mention big alien threats like Darkseid.). Likely most of his villains would still be on their grind except maybe Mr. Freeze who actually could have his problems solved by money.
Secondly: You gotta suspend disbelief. Make Superman a transitional power source and no one is gonna read it anymore, even if it would be ‘realistic’. Any number of heroes could readily solve a number of the worlds issues. Why doesn’t Iron Man put Arc reactors everywhere to power the world on clean energy? How come Storm doesn’t get rid of every hurricane before it starts? Why doesn’t Ice Man freeze up the poles and cool the planet down? The Flash could instantly deliver supplies to places in need. It’s realistic, but it’s boring, and boring doesn’t sell comics. Okay, maybe Ruins but that couldn’t be like… a whole series.
Isn’t the genie in the original story a trickster?
The genie will probably make everyone poor when Aladdin wishes for more equality.
If they start making kids shows have revolutionary heroes, it would be too “woke” and get banned.
After all, how long has it been since any version of Robin Hood was on the screen?
Changing the skin colour is enough “woke” to get banned. If kids shows have revolutionary heroes they’d drop bombs from helicopters on their studio like they did to people in Philadelphia all the way back in the distant memories of 1985.
As a Philadelphian… I just wanted to say…
hears Helicopter sounds
Noooo they traced my IP and found my Lemmy account 😱 I’m gonna di
Duck… and coverrrr! 🎶
So I’m playing Arkham Asylum and, like, the very beginning of the game you open some doors and shut down electrically powered things by just blowing up the connected panel with a batarang, but then later on you need another tool that blows them up via some kind of frequency overload. If I am still just blowing up the box, why can’t I hit it with something or even use my actual explosives? Taking the “bat logic” to game mechanics too. lol
A sticky Batarang with juicy C4 filling would make sense and keep the theme
I am pretty sure that’s even another tool later on. I’ve seen plenty of walls you can blow up, but positioned in a way you’d have to throw/shoot something that I do not yet have.
It’s dumber than that.
Oh man. Can’t wait to find out what it is now. 🤣
(Don’t tell me; I’ll get there.)
In the recent movies, he, or the Wayne foundation, does give a lot of money to charities in the city, and built the monorail system as well.
I thought his parents built/funded the monorail?
he, or the Wayne foundation,
Fair, but riding on the accomplishments of your parents is pretty nepobaby…
It was also canon that Wayne foundation funded the orphanage in Gotham.
A fucking monorail is some Musk type bullshit.
The comic writers aren’t researching the technical details. The important part is is that they built public transit.
except monorails are cool
I hear those things are awfully loud.
I mean, it’s essentially just the metro… but above ground. Except that above ground location is out of the way of existing ground-layer infrastructure like sidewalks and roads.
In essence, it’s just the benefits of a metro line with the added benefit of taking up less space from existing areas that can be used for transport. If you already have roads, sidewalks, and metro lines in an area, a monorail can just be another way to get around on top of all that without sacrificing space.
I’m not saying it’s perfect, but it’s a cool mode of transit, and can be genuinely useful in some cases.
Disney
He doesn’t in The Batman (2022). But that’s because it’s a Bruce Wayne origin story. Batman hasn’t created his secret identity yet.
A rich guy dressing up in body armor and going around beating up poor people to fight systemic corruption is the most believable part of the whole Batman franchise. In his original incarnation he had a gun too.
IN ONE OF THE animated series/movies uses it to kill zoom.
That’s actually the Thomas Wayne that becomes Batman from The flashpoint timeline!
In Batman begins, the issue is corruption.
Everyone knows Falcone is guilty but no one has the legal ability to arrest him.
So Bruce Wayne becomes a vigilante in a more Luigi kind of way in which he is willing to risk things cause he has the tools to do it right.
The whole point of Batman is doing all he can with his resources, even if that means breaking the law.
But yeah, we know today that the most effective thing he can do is not even charity, but pay for lobbying
It’s a feature in all superhero media. They don’t touch the status quo, or the systems we live in. It’s always the fault of a few rotten apples and they’re taken care of. Normal people don’t need to apply, it’s up to a few people with special power to fix it. And in reality, people with money see themselves as more special and empowered than normal people.
Those who pursue power or money and nothing else are statistically more likely to achieve the most money or power. It’s a filter or selection process. So a 100 billionaires are much much less likely to care, or to know, how a society should function except for what they learned and practiced: capitalism as the wealthy exploiting the masses and buying political power to gain more money.
They are narrow minded nerds in their own specific fields. Techbro’s reprogramming reality. In that way the villains stupidly applying their narrow minded views or delusions to social problems is a quite fitting metaphor.
So even if Bruce Wayne would pay lobbyists and donate to political campaigns and do it wisely, he would be the rare exception and outspend 100:1.
It’s extremely spot on that instead of doing obvious things that would better the city they just invest in a bunch of industry and tech instead. Very on the nose. Especially the Dark Knight Rises Batman where he had a clean energy program that was the answer to the energy crisis or whatever they were in but he just didn’t do it because he thought ‘the world wasn’t ready’.
I’m more pissed that Tony Stark having a clean energy solution was a central part of Ironman 1 and forgotten about in ever sequel. It could have been a theme of Ironman 2 if they aligned if Justin Hammer was invested in dirty energy and offered a juxtaposition to Thanos’s nihilistic environmentalism.
Problem is, by the time you’re successful in Hollywood, you’re invested in the status quo and it shows.
I don’t think it was plot relevant anymore, so we don’t hear much about it; but wasn’t an investment in clean energy mentioned in passing on one of the Avengers movies?
‘The Batman’ is even worse as the Wayne charity, which he should be running, is the center of corruption for Gotham.
The Riddler was justified in trying to get revenge on Bruce Wayne.
It’s a Bruce Wayne origin story. Batman hasn’t figured out how to be Bruce Wayne yet. The movie is about him realising he needs to do good as Bruce, too.
The Gotham Renewal Fund is managed by city employees. Batman was never told by anyone that he’s responsible for it, except the Riddler. And the Riddler was right, and after Batman stops the terrorism, it’s implied he starts fixing it.
How is the world not ready? The world was never ready for nuclear weapons, but we got them anyway…
We just need to advance socially as a species faster than climate change, that’s all. Easy.
Here’s a Tumblr post about how different versions of Bruce Wayne (comic books, animated series, etc.) have donated huge sums of money to charities and other improvements to Gotham City.
Meh. Only suckers give a shit about the “generosity” of billionaires. Tax them. Tax them down to millionaire status. Why should they dictate what programs get funded? It’s never worked before… it’s not suddenly going to start now.
I mean, your own tumblr link is proof of that. After all, Gotham’s still a crime ridden shithole, isn’t it? Clearly Bruce Wayne doesn’t know what Gotham actually needs.
In Turkey, our taxes are going to other billionaires anyway…
Gotham’s still a crime ridden shithole
In most continuities, Gotham is literally supernaturally cursed, often in multiple different ways
I am convinced that someone at some point in the DC universe timeline decided to make a shithole sink just to see what happens, Gotham was the end result. Shame it somehow became multi dimensional.
So you think removing the main plot device is the way to go for Batman stories?
Not necessarily disagreeing with you in the real world. But what do you expect from fiction?
At the end of the day it’s all propaganda. Yes, I think the best version of propaganda about how to deal with the wealthy would do this, and show how it’s more effective. I don’t think creating media about how we should rely on billionaires to solve our problems out of their own good will is a good idea.
It’s funny that in Judge Dredd the city changes as the story goes on, with political change, without waiting for Dredd to change things.
Fuck me. Do you think making a comic about helping the poor and saving others in the 30’s was propaganda? Think about it.
Do you think Captain America wasn’t? All media is to some extent.
Must feel like shit to think everything ever created comes from malice. Malice is implied when you say propaganda.
Malice is not implied by propaganda. What are you talking about? Propaganda is material trying to make you think a certain way. That can be good or bad.
Points for talking about real issues but also this is a pretend fantasy billionaire we’re talking about
better yet, fundamentally remove their power to rise again and build a system where money is not equal to power.
I like how every response to this is complaining about how he, a fictional billionaire that can’t actually change the status quo due to how superhero comics work and their inherent nature as propaganda, isn’t doing enough. He runs a rehabilitation program for members of gangs like the Penguin’s that are often working for these supervillains out of desperation and then hires them at his companies after, hiring convicts at twice the rate of other companies? Well, he should be paying them more than [undefined number]! Clearly, he’s only doing this because it makes him richer than his infinite money already does! AND he hasn’t even overthrown the corrupt government and installed his own socialist paradise. Clearly, everything that happens in the comics is all his fault, and he only acts when he deigns to trickle down some money to the poor and huddled masses that he sneers at from his golden throne.
It’s like complaining that Superman doesn’t just lobotomize Lex Luthor and be done with it since he’s just going to keep doing evil things and hurting people. Not only did he do that in that alternate timeline where he became dictator of the world “to permanently stop crime,” but they also wouldn’t have a story anymore if they just did the Marvel movie thing of killing off the villain at the end of every movie.
It’s like complaining that Superman doesn’t just lobotomize Lex Luthor and be done with it since he’s just going to keep doing evil things and hurting people. Not only did he do that in that alternate timeline where he became dictator of the world “to permanently stop crime,” but they also wouldn’t have a story anymore if they just did the Marvel movie thing of killing off the villain at the end of every movie.
I was with you until this paragraph. I don’t know how many people someone needs to be directly responsible for the death of before punching their heart out becomes justified, but I do contend that if instead of condemnation Batman had hugged Superman and apologized for not doing it himself Superman wouldn’t have spiraled into conquering the world…
I don’t disagree, “Deny, Defend, Depose” and all that, but if the villains actually got stopped once and for all, the comic book companies wouldn’t be able to keep the storylines going. They’d have to come up with new material, and Gods know that that’s the kind of thinking that causes executives to wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat.
Although, a storyline where they force the Joker to go to therapy and work out his problems might make for an interesting series…
Although, a storyline where they force the Joker to go to therapy and work out his problems might make for an interesting series…
that’s the Harley Quinn origin story…
Yeah, but I mean the Joker actually getting better, not making someone else worse.
The Joker gets an office job, finds a small business café nearby where he likes to read historical fiction, adopts a cat from a shelter, has a psychotic break and believes he’s trapped in a simulation created by robots to use the electrical energy produced by his body to sustain their own existence. You know, a normal life.
You should really watch Harley Quinn the HBO show, it’s not quite that but Joker has a recovery arc and it’s pretty good.
You’re thinking about it in-universe. But Batman wasn’t revealed to the world through an act of God. His nature, his limitations, his friends and enemies, his entire city were all constructed to enable the fundamental narrative of a billionaire in a suit indulging in violent vigilante power fantasies.
Of course you’re right that within that particular framework “giving away all his money” doesn’t make narrative sense. That’s the frustrating part; not that a character is arguably acting “irrationally” (that happens all the time), but that the stated reasons for their irrationality are convoluted and clearly backtracked from “well without it the story doesn’t work”.
The end result is that Batman is basically John Wick but depicted as a hero which I’ve always personally found very gross. This criticism is applicable to most superheroes but the dissonance is especially strong with Batman.
I completely agree. Like I said, it’s the inherent narrative issue and propaganda aspect of superhero comics that they support the status quo at all times.
My comment was specifically about people treating Batman like a real person in the comments here, because he only exists within that narrative framework, and to act like he’s an actual billionaire is silly. It’s inherently capitalist pro-billionaire philanthropy and status quo propaganda, but that’s not what people are complaining about. They’re upset that the fake billionaire (really an infinite-aire) is paying his workers who don’t exist poorly or whatever.
I’ve always said that Batman’s superpower is money. He’s basically the most capitalist superhero that you can think of. Just buying his way out of problems with Bat Anti-Shark Repellant. But criticizing the environmental damage of all that Bat Anti-Shark Repellant rather than the status quo behind the comic reinforcing the idea that money solves all problems is just funny.
Edit: Basically, I imagined some 25 year old angrily ranting the comments here to a couple of kids in a comic book store and had a good laugh about it.
He should pay his employees more. I don’t care if he pays them twice the average for their positions, he is clearly wealthy enough that his businesses can afford it.
The system we live under explicitly would label that guy an idiot.
Why pay a pleb anything beyond what is necessary when you can keep it for yourself
yeah, but that’s the societal trap. who cares what other people think if you know you’re doing the right thing by taking care of people who take care of you?
Well that’s the thing apparently rich people care very much what other rich people think about that. It is pathological mental illness.
and they own all the media to ensure that bootlickers think what they want.
Something about camel passing through the loop of a needle.
And there is a reason why Jesus didn’t negotiate with the money changers polluting the temple.
I agree with everything you’re saying. Maybe since its so in-our-faces now, things will maybe change? time will tell.
In principle, you’re correct.
In practice, the social pressure from rich peers will generally win out.
In that post he bankrolls many things that should already be subsidized by the state.
Also it’s not systematic, it’s just within his sphere of interest. If he physically sees you suffering he will make a grand public gesture to end it and buy himself some PR at the same time. This is the conservative mindset. Live two cities over? Tough luck. Anonymous donation? No of course not, Wayne Enterprises needs all the publicity it can get.
He picks and chooses his favorites, like every billionaire out there.
You only see the things in his immediate vicinity because it’s a story not a financial report. If he’s vaccinating kids on the other side of the planet, we aren’t going to hear about it unless it’s relevant to the story.
IIRC there are vigilante groups in Europe and Africa financed by Batman.
Anonymous donation? No of course not, Wayne Enterprises needs all the publicity it can get
Except lobbying “donations” that’s free speech and must done in private away from pedons eyes
I was about to say, I reject OP’s argument on it’s merits
The main reason super man is better than batman is because superman is working class. There’s no ethical way to be a billionaire, even if you inherit it.
Superman was born with power and recognizes that he doesn’t deserve it so he tries to use that power to help people whenever he can.
Batman was also born with power but decided that that wasn’t enough so he travelled the world acquiring more power and then returned home to use that power to enforce his will while wearing a mask to escape accountability.
Superman is an elite superhero who cosplays as working class
So elite he has trouble paying rent, sometimes.
The point of Superman is that he could BE the most elite being on the planet, but chooses instead to give himself to those who need it most
The second thing he ever did was throw a wife-beater through a wall
Clark fuckin rules
He’s a journalist son of farmers though
And a hell of a good dad.
Anarchist Batman is the best Batman.
Him and his hat always pop into my thoughts, from time to time.
i want batman who is not billionaire yet still manages to achieve same things through ingenuity and community effort
Project Mayhem.
Absolute batman, not born a bajilionare
This conversation is missing the part where he says “all of them”
And then also dresses as a bat
Maybe it’s changed over the last decade but not so much. Massive homeless problem, incredible mob presence, and a constantly filled forensic sanitarium.
If he made Gotham a better place he wouldn’t be able to punch mentally ill people at night to get his dead parents to love him
In his defense Gotham is quite literally cursed, and not like one cure but multiple on top of each other. That’s not even getting into the Court of Owls and the other secret society assholes, or the dark Eldritch gods for that matter.
Frankly speaking the best way to fix Gotham is probably just to dump all the napalm on it and then sink the city. Problem is I imagine that the city has relatively high home ownership with dirt cheap taxes due to the afformentioned issues meaning I doubt anyone will move out.
They tried that and the curse made ask the disasters hit Bludhaven instead. You can’t destroy Gotham.
Except Batman’s saved Gotham and the world a few times. Presumably not being a billionaire would make that much harder. Personally, I think the continued existence of everyone we know and love is worth more than all of Bruce Wayne’s wealth.
If he “saved” Gotham, he wouldn’t need to exist anymore
When someone plants a bomb that will destroy Gotham and Batman defuses and removed the bomb, what has Batman done to the city if you don’t think he saved it?
Like, if I save a child from getting hit by a car today is the kid now immortal?
The people usually doing stuff like that are guys he’s already caught a thousand times
Then after the bomb threat is gone, Gotham is still a shithole
The people
Whom the police are invariably unable to stop
usually doing stuff like that are guys he’s already caught a thousand times
Are you saying we should execute those who are mentally unwell and pose a danger to others?
Then after the bomb threat is gone, Gotham is still a shithole
Gotham’s a shit hole and thus doesn’t deserve saving?
Yeah. Execute them.
Not like we have any other choice like using nth metal to make more secure facilities.
Oh wait
I forgot
You’re taking this entirely too seriously and I’m not arguing over a fictional city with someone who seems to have a lot more invested in this than I do
I have two long boxes of Batman comics. I’ll have my fun. You can have your Internet fights.
He didn’t defuse it, he just shielded himself under some heavy iron pipes when it went off.
Not quite sure which incident you’re talking about but Batman’s saved Gotham and the world more than a few times. He mortally wounded Darkseid in the Final Crisis event, stopped a worldwide Joker plague in Endgame (and Gotham city from a similar fate in the 1989 movie) and so on. As a member of the Justice League, I imagine he’s saved the universe a good few times too.
