I like the shift away from “are they conscious” towards “what’s a way to define consciousness?”
Because that’s the actual important question. And literally nobody can answer it. Any discussion is more philosophy than hard science
The most interesting part is the last paragraph
Or, thirdly, are there two ways of being competent, the conscious way and the unconscious (or zombie) way? Could it be that some life forms on Earth have evolved competence via the consciousness trick — while life on some alien planet has evolved an equivalent competence via the unconscious, zombie trick? And if we ever meet such competent aliens, will there be any way to tell which trick they are using?
I think, when we finally do have a generally-accepted definition of consciousness, we will be deeply unsettled by how simple it is. How unprofound. Like a magic trick after you know how it works. And I think it will require us to think hard about what to do with animals and software that have it.
I feel like that’s exactly why we don’t have a generally-accepted definition of consciousness. Western ethics assigns special protection to whatever is conscious, so it is convenient to come up with a definition of consciousness, which excludes groups you want to exploit.
Tale as old as time, or at least the conscious idea of time. Whatever consciousness is, we are it. Those humans over there though? Who’s to say they aren’t sub-humans? Isn’t it our job to enlighten them and also take their land and food and things and selves?
By consciousness being an illusion I mean that we place great value on the uninterrupted continuation of our consciousness, but I think it’s likely that it (exactly as you suggest) only really exists in the moment. The illusion would then be the illusion that consciousness is uninterrupted, when in reality you’re almost constantly recreating yourself from memory.
This would, incidentally, make us concerningly similar to current AI models.
Of course I have no way of actually knowing any of this. It’s just what I’m betting on, because otherwise I think it’s really hard to explain any unconsciousness (be it sleep, general anesthesia, suspended animation or the Star Trek transporter) as anything short of death. My belief “solves” this problem by rejecting the whole premise of uninterrupted consciousness.
Man, those conversations are eye roll inducing
I like the shift away from “are they conscious” towards “what’s a way to define consciousness?”
Because that’s the actual important question. And literally nobody can answer it. Any discussion is more philosophy than hard science
The most interesting part is the last paragraph
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I think, when we finally do have a generally-accepted definition of consciousness, we will be deeply unsettled by how simple it is. How unprofound. Like a magic trick after you know how it works. And I think it will require us to think hard about what to do with animals and software that have it.
I feel like that’s exactly why we don’t have a generally-accepted definition of consciousness. Western ethics assigns special protection to whatever is conscious, so it is convenient to come up with a definition of consciousness, which excludes groups you want to exploit.
Tale as old as time, or at least the conscious idea of time. Whatever consciousness is, we are it. Those humans over there though? Who’s to say they aren’t sub-humans? Isn’t it our job to enlighten them and also take their land and food and things and selves?
Personally I’m in the “consciousness is an illusion and every time you go to bed a different person wakes up in the morning” camp.
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By consciousness being an illusion I mean that we place great value on the uninterrupted continuation of our consciousness, but I think it’s likely that it (exactly as you suggest) only really exists in the moment. The illusion would then be the illusion that consciousness is uninterrupted, when in reality you’re almost constantly recreating yourself from memory.
This would, incidentally, make us concerningly similar to current AI models.
Of course I have no way of actually knowing any of this. It’s just what I’m betting on, because otherwise I think it’s really hard to explain any unconsciousness (be it sleep, general anesthesia, suspended animation or the Star Trek transporter) as anything short of death. My belief “solves” this problem by rejecting the whole premise of uninterrupted consciousness.
That won’t get the IRS off your back, unfortunately
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Blindsight by Peter Watts is a great sci Fi novel about consciousness
That novel also does a shout-out to Richard Dawkins despite being set in the distant future because it was written in 2006.
it’s on my to-read list.
Right now listening to Children Of Strife. Whose series is also quite deep into conciousness and sapience
I have that but haven’t started it yet. The second in the series is one of my all time favourites.
“We’re going on an adventure”
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