• Pilferjinx@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      I wonder how true that is. Does it come down to effective insulation? I also thought the old refrigerants were more efficient but really bad for the environment. The only other factor is motor/pump.

      • Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        4 months ago

        Compressors are variable and much more efficient. More efficient and variable speed fan motors along with more efficient blade design. Insulation now is drastically better than glass wool of the past. Electronics are able to be integrated in order to provide more fine grain control and overall design has been improved just due to efficiency standards being placed on a bright yellow sticker. In the past design and component choices never really considered efficiency, while efficiency doesn’t always win out it’s a weighted factor and influences the overall engineering and design in ways that just didn’t happen before efficiency regulations came about.

        • jol@discuss.tchncs.de
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          4 months ago

          Insulation tech is better, yes, but also the insulation of a 40 year old fridge is by now totally fucked.

          • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
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            4 months ago

            Please explain how fridge insulation degrades with age.

            I would assume it’s made of something chemically stable and protected from the environment by the fridge casing.

            • jol@discuss.tchncs.de
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              4 months ago

              The doors, rubbers, etc definitely degrade very fast. The walls probably not so fast, but the casing also gets beaten up.

              • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
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                4 months ago

                Rubber seals wear out yes, but how does painted steel, unless the fridge is at the bottom of a lake?

  • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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    4 months ago

    Remember, friends don’t let friends buy Samsung or LG appliances!

    (Also, long lasting appliances still exist, you just have to be ready to pay the price, otherwise get something from the Maytag family)

    • x4740N@lemm.ee
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      4 months ago

      Anything from BSH group is good from what I’ve heard online from other netisens

      Which is

      • Bosch
      • Siemens
      • Neff
      • Gaggernau

      Miel are also good especially for vacuum cleaners

      All of this information I remember from reddits buy it for life subreddit which really should have a lemmy version

    • Xirup@yiffit.net
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      4 months ago

      Honestly I don’t get why Rossman cry so much about “he expected that his $2000> LG TV would not track him or at least have the option turned off by default.”

      Why shouldn’t they? Why would anyone expect in the first place that by buying a more expensive product they are going to care about your data? Obviously it benefits them to sell everyone’s data, from Rossman’s point of view it sounds like people who buy cheap products deserve to have their data sold because the company is making a loss by selling them the product.

      I usually agree with Rossman’s points, but this one in particular sounds ridiculous to me.

      • Altima NEO@lemmy.zip
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        4 months ago

        Yeah he’s really upset about LG, but it seems like everything tracks you these days. Seems a bit shortsighted to just shit on LG and no one else.

        • webhead@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          He shits on everyone all the time. It’s not exclusive to LG or even Apple. It’s just whatever happens to come to his attention. Which is basically pick a company and they’re doing something horrible.

          • uis@lemm.ee
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            4 months ago

            Which is basically pick a company and they’re doing something horrible.

            Except Framework. But they provide schematics.

        • uis@lemm.ee
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          4 months ago

          If you open his channel, you will see how he shits on all anti-repair crapufacturers.

      • uis@lemm.ee
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        4 months ago

        from Rossman’s point of view it sounds like people who buy cheap products deserve to have their data sold

        I watched him and it is obvious he is against “You bought from X? Lol, screw you!” mentality.

      • cogman@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        There’s some appliance breakdown vids (idk if Rossman is one of them) but the gist is Samsung and LG like to put cheap plastic parts in high wear locations which inevitably fail.

        Fridges are dead simple appliances. A compressor and evaporator coils with a temperature sensor. There’s absolutely no reason they shouldn’t outlast you and everyone you love.

        It’s insane these “premium” brands are built to fall like they do.

          • thatKamGuy@sh.itjust.works
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            4 months ago

            I mean, having to replace a fridge every few years because it constantly breaks in a way that’s uneconomical to repair will cost you a lot more in the long run.

            That’s the thing, it’s more expensive being poor.

            You’d be better off getting a 2nd hand quality brand from a wealthy suburb when they remodel their kitchen every 5ish years or so.

            • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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              4 months ago

              Sure it costs more in the long run, but the majority of people live paycheck to paycheck, do you think they want to go and pay 25k for a full set of appliances just so they’ll save money over 30 years when they can barely afford to pay for their basic needs?

              Even second hand, they’re still way more expensive than the basic shit from economical brands…

              • thatKamGuy@sh.itjust.works
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                4 months ago

                Bit of a straw-man argument there: firstly you don’t need to spend that all in one hit; the break even point is a lot sooner than 30 years; and lastly, paying to replace cheap shot that breaks quickly with more shit that breaks quickly is one of the traps that keeps prone living paycheck to paycheck.

                My two examples below:

                Samsung dryer died after 3yrs, out of warranty, broke in our 20s, couldn’t afford to replace it. Lucked out finding an ANCIENT Miele condenser dryer on Marketplace for $50. Not only did that thing last us another 3 years before it started tripping the circuit breaker, it was cheaper to run than the old unit and ended up saving us enough money that we were then able to invest in a brand new Bosch unit that’s still going today (7+ years).

                LG refrigerator died in a little over 3 years, due to a known compressor fault; uneconomical repair even though it was still under warranty, so we got a full manufacturer’s refund. We bit the bullet, did our research and went with a Made in Japan Hitachi model. It’s always outlasted the LG, and is again more energy efficient that we’re saving a few bucks a month on electricity.

                I will reiterate; it’s expensive being poor. Buying a better quality second-hand unit rather than a new ‘commodity brand’ appliance is just one of the small ways to make things a little less expensive.

                • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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                  4 months ago

                  So “You live paycheck to paycheck? Just find cheap stuff until you decide to bite the bullet and get a loan to buy something that will last!”

                  78% of people in the USA live like that.

          • kalleboo@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Checking what a fridge cost you in 1980 in an old Sears catalog, you’d be paying $4000 today accounting for inflation.

          • cogman@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            An insulated box with a decent compressor does not cost 10k. Making a compressor that fails after 2 years is actually hard to do, something both LG and Samsung spent time and money to achieve.

            Consider, for example, that nearly every car manufactured with an AC. Which is exactly the same tech as a fridge. Yet you rarely end up needing to replace the compressor on your car. You might need to recharge it or clean it, but not replace the compressor. 10k of your car price isn’t the HVAC.

            • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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              4 months ago

              Just saying, that’s the price for premium brands like Sub Zero or Thermador, but they have their reputation and it’s very very good

              • cogman@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                There are premium brands that do well, but there are also non premium brands that do pretty well. GE, for example, tends to make fairly reliable product (even today) for roughly the same price point of samsung/lg.

          • uis@lemm.ee
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            4 months ago

            Premium brands are not industrial brands. Goal of premium brands is to be as expensive as possible.

            • toddestan@lemm.ee
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              4 months ago

              That’s the problem. A lot of those high-end, expensive appliances are built just as shitty as the low-end, basic models. The difference is just some bells and whistles and a higher price tag.

              I have no problem paying extra for a higher quality, better built appliance. But the challenge is differentiating those from the low quality, built as cheaply as possible appliances that have just been marked up with a premium price tag.

              At least when I buy the cheap, shitty model, I get what I paid for.

              • uis@lemm.ee
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                4 months ago

                I often repeat to my parents and grand parents, that “expensive doesn’t mean good quality”. Well, mostly to mom and granny.

                The difference is just some bells and whistles and a higher price tag.

                Bells and whistles that sell your personal data.

        • DampCanary@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          He’s predominately Apple product repair guy, but he’s also right to repair advocate.

          And he likes to rant about brands that are generally against consumer rights (and common sense).

        • DampCanary@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          he’s involved in right to repair and has youtube channel where hem mostly talks about how brands try to avoid questions on repairability and sustainability

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      4 months ago

      I like our used Samsung dryer. For basic drying. It has all those other bells and whistles that I don’t care about, but it’s done well for years. That damn finished drying tune though…with the option to turn it off or…not turn it off. omg

      • Pacattack57@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        I like the washer and not the dryer. Had the set for 4 years. No issues with the washer but the dryer literally leaks lint. The trap doesn’t catch it and it gums up my vents in 2 months.

        • Rhaedas@fedia.io
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          4 months ago

          Good to know. I regularly pull it out and clean the vent with a vent extension brush anyway, once I got a house with a long vent where all sorts of things can settle. Huge fire hazard that most home owners don’t even think about. It seems to be catching the lint it ought to be, but perhaps this goes back to the idea that even in a line of product you can have good and bad machines made.

    • clearedtoland@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      I wish I had friends. It would’ve prevented me from buying the shitty dishwasher that last less than 3 years.

    • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.ee
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      4 months ago

      7 years ago I bought a brand new Samsung washer and dryer. After I hooked up everything for the washer (correctly), when I set it to hot water, cold would come out, and vice versa. Had it taken aware and Lowe’s replaced it with another brand new one. This time, the two guys who dollied in the firstly one, I had them hook everything up. Exact same thing happened. Hot for cold, cold for hot. These two guys were flabbergasted. They couldn’t believe two brand new washers were having the same defect. Same two guys brought another one the next day. Finally, the third one worked correctly.

      I haven’t had any problems since. But still, ridiculous it took three tries to get a functioning washer.

  • John Richard@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Moreso, the fridge will stop working in two years cause that is when their subscription cloud service to access your fridge will be updated with firmware that is no longer compatible.

  • Yurgenst@sh.itjust.works
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    4 months ago

    Sure it will work forever, but it also never really worked right in the first place. Those are definitely the fridges where one section freezes and other areas are almost room temp

    • hobowillie@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      People also have survivorship bias with these things. Sure your refrigerator might have lasted forever but quite a few others did not. There is a reason why appliance repair places existed and were much more common than today.

      • ChapulinColorado@lemmy.world
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        While that is true, items are purposely made unrepairable now. You don’t have right to repair movements because John Deere and Apple devices are so much more complex to repair for common failure points. You have those movements emerging because companies make it extremely difficult in the name of profit or style. With equally skilled (and due to the internet more informed) and capable repair personnel not being able to even partake in the process.

        • Peppycito@sh.itjust.works
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          4 months ago

          That’s to increase perceived obsolescence, where it still works okay but the bells and whistles broke. Also why they put pretty colorful thread on fancy truck seats. Your ass wears it off and makes an $80k truck look ratty.

          • frunch@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Exactly this!! The function of appliances hasn’t changed hardly at all since their inception: washers wash, dryers dry, refrigerators cool, ovens/stoves heat. No “smart” capabilities necessary, or at least nothing that simple mechanical controls and switches couldn’t handle.

        • booly@sh.itjust.works
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          4 months ago

          Plus they’re cheaper, relative to repair professionals’ labor.

          If a new refrigerator costs the same as 100 hours of skilled labor, then a 10 hour repair job (plus parts that cost the same as 1/10 of a refrigerator) will be economically feasible.

          But if a new fridge costs the same as 20 hours of skilled labor, and the more complex parts come in more expensive assemblies, then there’s gonna be more jobs don’t pass a cost benefit threshold. As a category, refrigerator repair becomes unfeasible, and then nobody gets skilled in that field.

      • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        yeah thats because they are made intentionally uneconomical and difficult to repair now

    • pyre@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      people underestimate how useful and frequently necessary icepicks used to be.

    • uis@lemm.ee
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      4 months ago

      There is no problem in sticking second compressor wirhout greatly reducing fridge lifespan.

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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    Yeah, but can you survive a hydrogen bomb blast in a 1980s fridge? No, you need a 1950s fridge for that.

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    4 months ago

    Remember in Australia, if you’re persistent enough, you could get this replaced under Australian Consumer Law, if something breaks in an unreasonable amount of time (outside of warranty, even). Considering fridges can easily last for 10 years, anything well within that should be fairly easy (but require many, many emails and threatening to taken them to your local small claims) to get replaced.

    That is if you can do without a fridge in the meantime 😅

    This is not legal advice.

    • GiddyGap@lemm.ee
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      4 months ago

      While consumer laws in the US generally suck, there are a few stores that have amazing return policies and go out of their way to please customers, Costco being one of them.

      I know a guy who brought back his 10-year-old broken plasma flatscreen TV without a receipt. They replaced it with a new model, no questions asked.

        • GiddyGap@lemm.ee
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          4 months ago

          Yeah. That’s why we can’t have nice things. The US should consider extended warranty rules similar to the EU. But that’s probably too “socialist” or whatever.

      • droans@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        My TV came with a five year warranty - two year manufacturer, two years Costco, and one year from my Costco credit card.

        My washer and dryer got seven. Same deal, but Costco was offering an extra extended warranty plan for free.

        The best part is that they design their warranties to run consecutively instead of concurrently. Unfortunately, Citi got rid of the extended warranty with the Costco credit cards about a year and a half ago.

    • Altima NEO@lemmy.zip
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      4 months ago

      Back when my dad bought a new whirlpool fridge, it didn’t take long for the LEDs inside to start failing.

  • henfredemars@infosec.pub
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    4 months ago

    Today’s products are built to just barely cross some finish line and not a day longer. It’s bad for you, and bad for the environment.

  • jaschen@lemm.ee
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    4 months ago

    Samsung fridge had the ice maker stop working 5 times in a span of 2 years. The tray mechanism inside would break so often. I actually started buying replacements from AliExpress and treated it as a consumable product.

      • Sparky@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        4 months ago

        I wouldn’t say it uses an unreasonable amount of power to run. I may be wrong, but a water heater and some pumps can’t be more efficient other than insulation so it wouldn’t waste power to heat the surrounding air.

        • PoopBuffet@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          Modern washing machines auto-balance the load, which negates the need for the massive weights you get inside older washing machines for stability. The motors in older ones also have to work harder because of this since it is trying to spin an unbalanced drum. I also assume modern ones have more efficient brushless motors etc.

          The load balancing thing definitely applies to the front loading washing machines we have here, no idea about top-loading.

          • Sparky@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            4 months ago

            Ours is front loading, and I’m sometimes scared to take a dump in the same room when the thing is spinning full speed, as the dryer on top of it bounces and shakes aggressively, most likely due to the lack of auto balancing. I guess I didn’t think of the inefficiencies there

        • madcaesar@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          Your washing machine is heating the water? It’s not hooked up to the hot water supply? Maybe that’s a Europe thing or something

          • Sparky@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            4 months ago

            I’m pretty sure it’s a Europe thing too, as the washing machine and dishwasher heat their own water. Didn’t know the US did it differently

            • chrizzly@feddit.de
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              4 months ago

              Funny coincidence, I’ve recently watched a video by TechnologyConnections on dishwashers and thought about the hot water connection thing. Here in Europe our dishwashers are usually connected to hot water, whereas the washing machine is only connected to cold… wondered about that difference, too.

              • Sparky@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                4 months ago

                That’s super interesting! I currently live in Norway, but I used to live in Lithuania, and for both countries I can say that it’s common for dishwashers and washing machines to heat their own water. It’s interesting to see how different countries have solved the “get hot water” problem for appliances.

      • Brkdncr@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        not energy, but def water. modern wash machines are extremely water efficient. That may result in energy savings if you’re using hot water. Modern detergent doesn’t really need hot water though.

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    4 months ago

    In 2016 my parents bought a new microwave oven and gave their old one to me. That new microwave is broken now and the one I got is still operating the same as it did in the 90s.

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    I used to rent this tiny little house from an elderly couple a little over a decade ago. It was their first house when they got married in the late 40s and they’d been renting it out since they moved to a bigger house in the 50s. In all that time the refrigerator has been replaced ONCE in like 1968 and that fridge still worked perfectly when I moved out lol