I’m just not sure I’ve gotten my point across to you bc93. I’m not asking anyone to become an emotionless automation. That’s of course a nightmarish outcome. That’s full logic, no passion. Bad. In that same exact manner, all passion, no logic is also horrible. The history of people who have done that is also extremely dark. Nobody is advocating for either of those though!
When I tell someone to “put yourself in someone else’s shoes”, I am not asking them to lose their sense of self or to base their final decision entirely on that other person. It’s a thought mechanism we use to emphasize our sense of empathy, which gives us a new perspective that we fold into our amalgamation of ideas.
I’m not asking for anyone to turn their emotions off forever, or even deluded enough to think you can do that fully at all, in the same way that I don’t expect anyone to fully convert their brain into another person’s to empathize. It doesn’t matter, it’s still a useful exercise in part.
That’s all I’m asking for. There is a lot of nuance and complexity to all situations, and passion is blinding. I’m not a Buddhist, but they have a concept of Bonno, those passions that inspire us to actions that harm ourselves or others. I don’t think Buddhists are quite on the same level as Ben Shapiro and the Nazis just because they recognize that passion can be blinding.
I think we more or less are on the same page - just to clarify though, my reactions have been specifically motivated by this line in your original message: “try to think separate from your feelings” - there is no such thing as thinking separated from feelings. We can’t do that. All we can do is try to consider other people’s perspectives as best we can, learn what our biases are and how they shape our thinking, and accept that we will never be fully objective or unbiased.
To believe that you’re capable of acting without bias is dangerous, but it’s just as bad to disregard the perspectives of others.
I’ve never said that people should ignore any attempt at logic and just focus on their passions, but the modern cult of rationality and stoicism is ironically hugely lacking in self-awareness and rationality.
I’ve never said that people should ignore any attempt at logic and just focus on their passions, but the modern cult of rationality and stoicism is ironically hugely lacking in self-awareness and rationality.
I’ve never said that people should ignore any attempt at passion and just focus on their logic, but the modern mobs of righteous indignation and fury are ironically hugely lacking in empathy, tolerance (not of intolerance, before that gets tossed at me), and pragmatism.
I agree that we mostly seem to be on the same page, but I really need to stress that I have not asked people to be soulless and I think that’s a mischaracterization of my asking for people to set their passion aside as much as possible as an exercise which is inherently temporary. We’re both just looking for balance here.
I’ve never thought or said that were asking people to be soulless or that you think people should become unfeeling machines or anything like that - a person doesn’t need to go that far. All we need to do is trick ourselves into believing that we’re making a decision based on logic and reason rather than emotions and passions, and that’s easy to do.
By the way, just to clear the air, I’m not really trying or intending to argue with you or anything, I’m just expanding on your ideas and sharing my own thoughts. I’m not the person downvoting your comments, either, for whatever that’s worth.
Thank you for the discussion, I appreciate your thoughts, you seem like a decent person.
I’m just not sure I’ve gotten my point across to you bc93. I’m not asking anyone to become an emotionless automation. That’s of course a nightmarish outcome. That’s full logic, no passion. Bad. In that same exact manner, all passion, no logic is also horrible. The history of people who have done that is also extremely dark. Nobody is advocating for either of those though!
When I tell someone to “put yourself in someone else’s shoes”, I am not asking them to lose their sense of self or to base their final decision entirely on that other person. It’s a thought mechanism we use to emphasize our sense of empathy, which gives us a new perspective that we fold into our amalgamation of ideas.
I’m not asking for anyone to turn their emotions off forever, or even deluded enough to think you can do that fully at all, in the same way that I don’t expect anyone to fully convert their brain into another person’s to empathize. It doesn’t matter, it’s still a useful exercise in part.
That’s all I’m asking for. There is a lot of nuance and complexity to all situations, and passion is blinding. I’m not a Buddhist, but they have a concept of Bonno, those passions that inspire us to actions that harm ourselves or others. I don’t think Buddhists are quite on the same level as Ben Shapiro and the Nazis just because they recognize that passion can be blinding.
I think we more or less are on the same page - just to clarify though, my reactions have been specifically motivated by this line in your original message: “try to think separate from your feelings” - there is no such thing as thinking separated from feelings. We can’t do that. All we can do is try to consider other people’s perspectives as best we can, learn what our biases are and how they shape our thinking, and accept that we will never be fully objective or unbiased.
To believe that you’re capable of acting without bias is dangerous, but it’s just as bad to disregard the perspectives of others.
I’ve never said that people should ignore any attempt at logic and just focus on their passions, but the modern cult of rationality and stoicism is ironically hugely lacking in self-awareness and rationality.
I’ve never said that people should ignore any attempt at passion and just focus on their logic, but the modern mobs of righteous indignation and fury are ironically hugely lacking in empathy, tolerance (not of intolerance, before that gets tossed at me), and pragmatism.
I agree that we mostly seem to be on the same page, but I really need to stress that I have not asked people to be soulless and I think that’s a mischaracterization of my asking for people to set their passion aside as much as possible as an exercise which is inherently temporary. We’re both just looking for balance here.
I’ve never thought or said that were asking people to be soulless or that you think people should become unfeeling machines or anything like that - a person doesn’t need to go that far. All we need to do is trick ourselves into believing that we’re making a decision based on logic and reason rather than emotions and passions, and that’s easy to do.
By the way, just to clear the air, I’m not really trying or intending to argue with you or anything, I’m just expanding on your ideas and sharing my own thoughts. I’m not the person downvoting your comments, either, for whatever that’s worth.
Thank you for the discussion, I appreciate your thoughts, you seem like a decent person.