• Ullallulloo@civilloquy.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    6 months ago

    You obviously aren’t legally guilty of it until you’ve been charged and convicted, but that doesn’t mean you haven’t actually done it in the meantime.

    • enbyecho@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      6 months ago

      but that doesn’t mean you haven’t actually done it

      Yes, but you are only guilty of it, legally, if you are caught :)

      A subtle but useful distinction in my book.

    • KAYDUBELL@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      6 months ago

      That’s not how trespass works. You have to be “noticed” that you are not welcome on the property. Once you are on notice you have trespassed if you haven’t left

      • Ullallulloo@civilloquy.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        6 months ago

        No, at least common law trespass definitely does not require any noticing. Can you show me any statutory form that does? Obviously crimes are hard to prosecute without witnesses, but very few crimes require someone to notice at the time for it to be a crime.

        Edit: I read that too fast.

        • dual_sport_dork 🐧🗡️@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          6 months ago

          “Common law” has no relevance to state law matters in the US (nor Federal, for that matter). Here is the relevant statute in this case:

          https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-750-552

          The bar for trespass is met only if the perpetrator has been “forbidden” from accessing the property by the owner. This does not have to be in person, or verbal. A “keep out” or “no trespassing” sign would suffice, and this is why such things exist. In this case I would be immensely surprised if there weren’t some kind of employees only, authorized personnel only, or keep out sign posted on whatever method of ingress was used to reach the inside of the sign.

          The intent of this is clear, it’s so nobody can get done for merely setting foot on a property in some situation where they didn’t realize they’d left public right of way or a property where they had authorization to be. You have to tell the person to GTFO (either preemptively or upon discovery) and if they don’t, then they can be arrested.

          • Ullallulloo@civilloquy.com
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            6 months ago

            Ohh, my bad. Y’all mean like “given notice”, not like “disturbing the owner”. I read that too fast.

            Common law is still valid in every state in the US (except maybe Louisiana), although obviously statutory law usually overrides it. You’re right that there’s no federal common law since Erie v. Tompkins though.

            And I agree with your analysis of that statute. That is interesting too, since my state, Illinois, does not require explicitly being forbidden by the owner. It’s much more in line with the common law idea of trespassing as simply being going somewhere without authority, express or implied.