There are cultural traditions of using colors as symbols, many of which are harmless – red for anger, blue for sadness, green for envy. Whitelist and blacklist come from the very long-standing theme of using white to represent good and black to represent evil.
Regardless of how you feel about the origin of those themes, it makes sense to start moving away from them now. Whether intentional or not, they can be harmful and aren’t really necessary.
Let’s also start removing phrases with white, yellow and brown as those are used to refer to people’s skin colour as well.
The only reason I would even contemplate not using blacklist or white washing is if an actual person of that skin colour says that it is not okay for them, or there’s an actual consensus among people of that community that it isn’t acceptable.
I can tell you as a person with brown skin, with brownie or whatever used as a derogatory name, almost everyone I know isn’t even concerned with terms like brown out or brown note.
Online outrages or articles aren’t an accurate depiction of reality.
Even more dangerously, shit like this drives outrage and diverts attention from actual, real issues faced by people of different races. Like not having stuff to eat or indoor plumbing or mental health infrastructure or access to health care.
The only people being outraged are people like you when someone is using a different word.
I watched an ig reel that said people react to anything different to them either with fear or judgement. Get over yourself, have some empathy, and move on.
That’s your take reading a post talking explicitly about how a person won’t be outraged about something without actually taking into consideration how the people who the issues is about feel or act?
Maybe you should stop for a moment, think over what you’ve said and read, and consider that many of these discrimated groups can actually think for ourselves and doesn’t need to be told what to be outraged over?
not only that but whitelist-blacklist are just bad names.
even greenlist-redlist would be better (at least while we have light signals at intersections) as green means go red means stop are more universally understood.
but allowlist and blocklist are just plain better, they are self explanatory words. you don’t need to learn what they mean since it’s right there in the name.
whitelist-blacklist are names where you need to learn the meaning of them, sticking to them just because they were used in the past is not the best argument.
They came from voting in ancient Athens were people had a white ball and a black ball. You put one or the other into a jar, a black was a no vote, white was yes. It has never had anything to do with race. If it bothers you change the words for skin color instead then.
“whitelist-blacklist are names where you need to learn the meaning of them”
You could say this about every word. All language is based on past usage.
Words often work like unique signifiers “symbols”, often by using them you learn them and dont question it. Thats a neutral phenomenon. It has advantages and disadvantages. Mainly, redlist is as disconnected from meaning as much as blacklist is. Requiring the understanding of what a “car” is, and why they cant “wheel their way” thru a cross shaped road becuse of a colored light being there. (Mabe even “across” may make no sense anymore in the future) It sounds really stupid when put like that, but accessability is important.
it isn’t though. you don’t need cars to learn red means stop, we literally had miniature roads, crossing and signs at my pre-school (or whatever it’s called in English, the one you go at age 3 till 6, you start school at 6).
Stop sign is red, pedestrian crossing are just red - stop, green - go. you learn that from a very young age so the association is natural.
Also, just to be clear, I didn’t say redlist is good, just that it’s less stupid than blacklist.
There are cultural traditions of using colors as symbols, many of which are harmless – red for anger, blue for sadness, green for envy. Whitelist and blacklist come from the very long-standing theme of using white to represent good and black to represent evil.
Regardless of how you feel about the origin of those themes, it makes sense to start moving away from them now. Whether intentional or not, they can be harmful and aren’t really necessary.
Let’s also start removing phrases with white, yellow and brown as those are used to refer to people’s skin colour as well.
The only reason I would even contemplate not using blacklist or white washing is if an actual person of that skin colour says that it is not okay for them, or there’s an actual consensus among people of that community that it isn’t acceptable.
I can tell you as a person with brown skin, with brownie or whatever used as a derogatory name, almost everyone I know isn’t even concerned with terms like brown out or brown note.
Online outrages or articles aren’t an accurate depiction of reality.
Even more dangerously, shit like this drives outrage and diverts attention from actual, real issues faced by people of different races. Like not having stuff to eat or indoor plumbing or mental health infrastructure or access to health care.
The only people being outraged are people like you when someone is using a different word.
I watched an ig reel that said people react to anything different to them either with fear or judgement. Get over yourself, have some empathy, and move on.
Oh shit, well if you watched an Instagram reel then it’s probably true.
Note though how I’m here reacting to something different with neither fear nor judgement, just with sarcasm.
That’s your take reading a post talking explicitly about how a person won’t be outraged about something without actually taking into consideration how the people who the issues is about feel or act?
Maybe you should stop for a moment, think over what you’ve said and read, and consider that many of these discrimated groups can actually think for ourselves and doesn’t need to be told what to be outraged over?
Ironically you are being very judgemental
They are sort of necessary because people understand what they mean. How about we change the words for skin color instead.
not only that but whitelist-blacklist are just bad names.
even greenlist-redlist would be better (at least while we have light signals at intersections) as green means go red means stop are more universally understood.
but allowlist and blocklist are just plain better, they are self explanatory words. you don’t need to learn what they mean since it’s right there in the name.
whitelist-blacklist are names where you need to learn the meaning of them, sticking to them just because they were used in the past is not the best argument.
I’m fairly certain the term “blacklist” came before traffic lights
They came from voting in ancient Athens were people had a white ball and a black ball. You put one or the other into a jar, a black was a no vote, white was yes. It has never had anything to do with race. If it bothers you change the words for skin color instead then.
“whitelist-blacklist are names where you need to learn the meaning of them”
You could say this about every word. All language is based on past usage.
Words often work like unique signifiers “symbols”, often by using them you learn them and dont question it. Thats a neutral phenomenon. It has advantages and disadvantages. Mainly, redlist is as disconnected from meaning as much as blacklist is. Requiring the understanding of what a “car” is, and why they cant “wheel their way” thru a cross shaped road becuse of a colored light being there. (Mabe even “across” may make no sense anymore in the future) It sounds really stupid when put like that, but accessability is important.
it isn’t though. you don’t need cars to learn red means stop, we literally had miniature roads, crossing and signs at my pre-school (or whatever it’s called in English, the one you go at age 3 till 6, you start school at 6).
Stop sign is red, pedestrian crossing are just red - stop, green - go. you learn that from a very young age so the association is natural.
Also, just to be clear, I didn’t say redlist is good, just that it’s less stupid than blacklist.