• cyd@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    8
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Nuclear families are common in hunter gatherer societies, like the American tribes I think you’re thinking about. But settled societies – the large societies that took shape after the adoption of agriculture in various places around the world, starting from prehistoric times – are generally based on clans and other extended kinship groups. Even today, some societies remain heavily clan-based, like the Afghan tribes that have given the West so much vexation over the past twenty years. Within living memory, there have been many countries that have made the disorienting shift from clan-based to family- or individual-based social organization, as part of “modernization”.

    The historical role of the Catholic church in weakening clans in Europe has been remarked upon by many scholars and can’t be dismissed as bogus. The idea that this led (inadvertently) to long-run benefits for the European economy and innovation is more provocative, but seems plausible. Again, within living memory, there have been writers and social reformers in the developing world (e.g. India and China) who have criticized the stifling effects of traditional clan or caste based social organization, following pretty much the same line of reasoning.

    • dr_scientist@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      1 year ago

      I wrote a great reply that was brilliant and generous and had all the clever bits, and then Lemmy deleted it.
      You’re right, clan-based practices have had and continue to have struggles both with modernisation and basic human rights. They are not idealised Rousseauean societies. But the author is basically saying that this shift in marriage practices is the sole contributor to Western science. It’s a stretch to be sure, and it doesn’t even have the evidence right.
      Here’s a critique with quotes from people way smarter than me.

      https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/nov/20/the-weirdest-people-in-the-world-review-a-theory-of-everything-study

      • cyd@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        Yes, the “weird” guy definitely over-hyped the hypothesis to sell his book. Fukuyama had a more nuanced take in his book The Origins of Political Order, which was that the church-influenced marriage (and inheritance) practices provided long term benefits by aiding the evolution of the concept of rule of law. But it was only one of a very large number of historical factors.

        • dr_scientist@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Haven’t read that, sounds like an interesting take. Thanks for that. I love anything about how ‘order’ was established, since it seems like a given today, but it definitely isn’t.

      • nomadjoanne@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        It can be a contributing factor without being the only factor, of course. We can accept the author’s general ideas without accepting all of the conclusions he draws from them.

    • BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Most Native American groups did not rely on nuclear family setups, including the few “hunter gatherer” tribes that I know of. Nuclear families actually were most common among pastoral groups, to my knowledge.