• bumphot@lemy.lol
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    8 months ago

    Only on paper. In practice there are many financial and military infulence that US gets when a country joins NATO that result in joining wars in Middle East.

    • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
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      8 months ago

      Such as when America tried to lead everyone into a predictably disastrous invasion of Iraq, resulting in most of Europe telling us to fuck off?

      Truly, the ‘infulence’ of America is mighty and all must tremble before it.

        • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
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          8 months ago

          This was all after the invasion to support the fledgling new Iraqi government.

          If ten trainers from Norway training the Iraqi military to resist terrorist attacks is your idea of an example of gross western imperialism, you’ll have to forgive me for not being hugely convinced.

          • bumphot@lemy.lol
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            8 months ago

            You took it out of a context of a bigger picture. Of course on it self it is not the end of the World, but it was a simple show of how US influneced NATO states to do its bidding to get oil. Other horrible things that they are doing around the World and other NATO invasions are what really puts it all toghether.

            • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
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              8 months ago

              No, it is not, and I’m not going to allow you to just walk back your claims after some inconvenience. To quote you yourself:

              This just means that Sweden will have [to] send their troops to fight wars in middle east for oil companies.

              No, it doesn’t. NATO membership does not mean that anyone is forced to fight wars in the Middle East. If that were the case, all of NATO would have been roped into the Iraq invasion, but they weren’t. The vast majority told America to fuck off during the invasion, and only lightly participated in some minor training operations with the Iraqi military afterwards.

              And again, Sweden not being in NATO did not prevent it from participating in other NATO campaigns in a voluntary capacity. Your claim that Sweden joining NATO means that it’s going to be forced to participate in all these Middle Eastern wars against its will simply does not stand up to even a cursory look at actual reality. You can believe whatever you like since it appears that you’re immune to facts, but anyone else reading this should know that you’re not saying anything based in actual evidence.

              Also, if you really think that ten Norwegians trying to teach Iraqi soldiers how to resist the groups that later became ISIS is an example of the “horrible things” that NATO does, that says much more about you than it does about NATO. The world is actually more complicated than “US brainwashes the world into killing the third world because oil”.

              Cheers.

              • bumphot@lemy.lol
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                8 months ago

                They are not forced legally but practically indirectly. It is as voluntary as someone agreeing to landlords terms or those of your employer. Legally speaking, yes no one is forcing you, practically speaking you don’t really have a choice and such a system was created on purpose so you can’t have a choice. Once you start depending on US for their support in your defense, you need to scratch their back in doing an invasion or two so they keep supplying your weapons.

    • Zanshi@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      What’s your source on that?

      If none go spread your propaganda somewhere else, you’re either a russian bot or a sympathiser. Either way you will find no friends here.

      • bumphot@lemy.lol
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        8 months ago

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO#Military_operations All of NATO wars were in non-NATO countries, all where offensive invasitions. They fight in MIddle East for oil companies. I do not sympathize with Russian government, they are just as bad when given the chance. But NATO is scarier. Calling people to support Russia when they critisize your government is insane.

        • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
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          8 months ago

          And again, the only mandatory after Article V have been monitoring and patrolling US airspace for a few months after 9/11 and some maritime operations in the Mediterranean to protect shipping and prevent terrorism and smuggling. All those other NATO operations were voluntary, and other NATO countries have happily told the US to fuck off when they don’t want to be involved.

          Also, Sweden, despite not being in NATO, also participated in operations in Afghanistan. Your premise that being in NATO necessarily causes you to be involuntarily dragged into gallivanting around the Middle East is simply false. Other nations have autonomy and agency, actually. Not everything is about America.

          • bumphot@lemy.lol
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            8 months ago

            Sweden, like many other non-NATO states, are only officially not in NATO because of lack of popular support. These wars are used to pass these things officially. US influences many countries, being in NATO officailly makes this easier. As volontery as it might seem, people rarely give support for these things and politicains that do usually get funded by the US.

          • bumphot@lemy.lol
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            8 months ago

            Wikipedia has citations. I don’t know what could you find as more reliable? What did you have in mind? Also I don’t think this is fair. I gave you the source, it is just as reliable as any other, since it has citations for all of it. If the situtation was reversed and you saw wikipedia article that claimed the opposite and I replied exactly the way you did, how would you react? Be honest