an update to defederating from sh.itjust.works - Beehaw
beehaw.org
hey folks, here’s a quick update on our decision to defederate from sh.itjust.works! (and here’s sh.itjust.works [https://sh.itjust.works/post/129725]’s side of this update) we got in touch with the head admin over there, The Dude, and we had a pretty good chat about our concerns and reason for defederating. while immediate re-federation is just bluntly off the table with the rudimentary state of Lemmy’s moderation tools, we now have a pretty good idea of the roadmap to refederating with them. we think we’ll eventually be able to do this, although we don’t have a timetable on when yet. we’re also now collaborating with him on how to move forward–and in the weeks and months to come we’ll be pushing to expedite the process of developing some of the necessary tools. this decision has really helped us make connections that can hopefully realize those tools both on the desktop side and in apps being developed for Lemmy. we’re also hoping to collaborate with other Lemmy administrators who have needs like our own, or just generally want more granular tools at their disposal. we did also get in touch with the lemmy.world owner prior to defederating to share the concerns that prompted us to defederate[^1]–but we have not received any communication from him since it was levied, so there’s no roadmap at all there as of now. we’re always open to reconsidering and collaborating to end the defederation with him, but for now the earliest i can give you is “when mod tools are in a better state”. that’s all for now folks. if any new significant developments take place we’ll announce them as needed. [^1]: we’re only bringing this up now because it was just not useful information in the context of our announcement. it almost certainly would have been interpreted as some sort of callousness and/or brought unnecessary sectarianism and grief to him. at the end of the day he has his reasons and desires for running lemmy.world how he does, and we have ours for running Beehaw as we do. because of social and technological circumstances those are just incompatible right now, and that’s fine.

(Posting to lemmy.world seems to be disabled so I’m posting this here instead.)

This inconsistency has been bothering me, so I went poking around in their support community, and the best I could find was a statement saying they had reached out to the admins of both. Apparently they expected @ruud@lemmy.world to reply to something that didn’t seem like a question as indicated by his response in Beehaw Support. As such, they claim to have no roadmap to eventually refederate with lemmy.world.

I added a reply from another instance, but I’m guessing I won’t receive a reponse so if anyone knows, I would like to better understand the issue. It’s quite annoying feeling like I’m missing out, especially when I’m seeing inflammatory overly generalized statements from kbin.social users about how lemmy.world deserved to be defederated over in this post on lemmy.ml.

  • suspecm@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2·
    1 year ago

    Didn’t think I’d vitness such drama in my first week on lemmy. My popcorn is ready.

  • taigaman@kbin.social
    1·
    1 year ago

    I say leave them to themselves. I tried applying for an account there, and was rejected. I guess they must not be hurting for new members. You have to wonder if they’ll run out of people as other communities/magazines continue to grow without them. They might find their own members leaving in favor of those larger communities.

    • suspecm@lemmy.world
      1·
      1 year ago

      Yeah it’s really not a good look when you have to anwser 3 questions and if you don’t anwser the “right” way you get rejected. After a week of waiting.

  • michikade@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    1 year ago

    I read that there were some people with accounts at lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works that went into their communities and were rude, inflammatory, and not following their rules so I think it’s more of a ‘punishing the many for the actions of the few’ situation. Maybe they were getting overrun, maybe there were a ton of rule breakers, or maybe they just didn’t want to deal with the huge surge of users. Hard to say.

    I haven’t been in their communities so I don’t know if maybe they have much more strict rules that people weren’t following or what. Or maybe people were bringing a vibe they weren’t fond of - they may have that insular community feel and maybe too many people moved into their neighborhood that threw off their block parties, I don’t know. I personally don’t feel the loss because I’m not in their communities but I do feel kinda sad that someone federated with both might see people commenting the exact same thing but they can’t see each other so they can’t just interact with each other.

    • s38b35M5@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      maybe there were a ton of rule breakers

      Look at the modlog https://beehaw.org/modlog and you’ll see it was five users, six or seven actions. The more I try to understand, the less sense this makes to me…

    • SJ_Zero@lemmy.fbxl.netEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      I took one look at the block list that beehaw has, and it immediately became clear they just block pretty much everything.

      That’s the way a lot of the legacy lemmyverse is. They’re an enforced echo chamber. Unless you want to be the exact same echo chamber, you’re not allowed.

      I didn’t even know I was on their block list until I checked their block list. I was subscribe to a bunch of their communities and participating through lotide, but instead of blocking the subdomain they blocked a magazine website with no federation features.

    • Mac@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      They have strict rules.
      …Not to say they’re unreasonable rules.

      • michikade@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        1 year ago

        Yeah, they can definitely have their rules and it’s on everyone who steps over there to follow them for sure. They can run their instance and communities however they want, that’s the beauty of this whole system. It’s just unfortunate that they blocked a couple general population instances without specifically contrary rules and beliefs because a couple people were being jerks (if that’s what’s been happening).

  • ElectroVagrant@lemmy.worldMEnglish
    1·
    1 year ago

    Not sure about the situation with Lemmy.ml other than they’ve been linked longer than any of the newer instances (so maybe have a better sense for how the admins/mods there are willing to handle things, but with Kbin.social it wasn’t being federated for awhile as they worked on just getting the instance more fully online (a testament to how new-ish its software is, I think).

    So I think they simply had more experience and trust that Lemmy.ml would handle things on their end, and Kbin.social simply wasn’t being federated just yet when they made their decision.

    • kiwifoxtrot@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      So why isn’t kbin.social defederated now? They are federated, open, and growing. The only sin that lemmy.world had was it was reliable.

  • AlmightySnoo 🐢🇮🇱🇺🇦@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    1 year ago

    Unpopular opinion but I don’t think refederation with beehaw.org should be on the table. They loved the concept of federation when they needed users, and then once they’ve grown enough they said okay now we’re gonna be a closed island and the other peasants need to rise to our standards before we refederate with them. The moderation excuse is obviously not sincere as users could have easily volunteered to moderate.

    No matter how fancy their writing is (and there was indeed lots of it, why try too hard to justify the decision?), I think the trust has been broken. Why would I comment on their threads ever again and risk having my content “locked” in their instance if they go on another ego trip and defederate again?

    • Jessica@lemmy.worldOPMEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      I just want to know why only some of the large communities were hit. My best guess so far from memory is lemmy.ml was struggling to stay online and federated during that time, and kbin.social had their Cloudflare DDOS protection enabled breaking federation so maybe they were not an immediate concern on the day the announcement was made. I’ve no clue why they have not since defederated with lemmy.ml and kbin.social since both are currently federating with everyone.

      As far as refederating with Beehaw.org goes, lemmy.world is only defederated with one unrelated instance so we never actually stopped federating with them. It’s just a one way street stuck in time since we get no new content.

      • s38b35M5@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        1 year ago

        @Jessica@lemmy.world I noticed your comment in one of the threads linked and I share your sentiment.

        Furthermore, if I look over at beehaw’s modlog, I see only five (5) moderator actions against lemmy.world users and one community removal.

        Did they really defederate because they had five users to moderate? Does anyone see something I’m missing in the log?

        Edit: woke up a bit more and realized you are OP so simplified my comment

        • Jessica@lemmy.worldOPMEnglish
          1·
          1 year ago

          That is some damning evidence that they really did defederate over effectively nothing. I don’t quite understand how the modlog works or how to filter it, so I’m glad you were able to research that and confirm because I was curious if there were a lot of records in there leading up to the defederation.