• uphillbothways@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    54
    ·
    9 months ago

    Looking forward to the day Putin gets done like these warships he’s been losing, and hopefully by the Russian people. Fucking scumbag war criminal.

    • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      19
      ·
      9 months ago

      People are too afraid of Disappearing to stand up to him. Self preservation unfortunately looks at short term over long term.

      You know what they say, what’s good for your survival isn’t good for your health.

      • uphillbothways@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        It’s unfortunate, but understandable. Fear of death is a powerful motivator. That’s why tyrants resort to it so frequently.

        More and more news makes it sound like Russian conscripts get better treatment in Ukraine’s POW camps than they do in the Russian military. Hopefully, more and more of them can find ways to lay down arms and exit the conflict to safety.

    • Gerula@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      48
      ·
      9 months ago

      I think in the context of the Black Sea fleet it’s considered major. They cannot replace them so every ship counts especially missile carrying ones.

      • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        9 months ago

        this sent me down a hole comparing the two. looks like in terms of relative armaments, the Rocinante isn’t that different to modern day.

        • awnery@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          9 months ago

          what about all the redefining the entire ship as something new by spoofing a transponder code that should be unspoofable… eh that sounds normal these days

      • brianorca@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        ·
        9 months ago

        They have a navy, but most of it is outside the Black Sea, and Turkey is not going to let it in.

    • frezik@midwest.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      You’re right, it’s not, but it’s what the Russians have. Keep in mind that the Black Sea is basically an oversized brackish lake, but is really important to the Russians because it has warm water ports. Russians love warm water ports. They also can get things into the Mediterranean from there, but they’re bottle necked at either Gibraltar or Suez for getting out into the world’s oceans.

      Just looking at what they have in the Black Sea, they have no ships over 10k tons displacement since the Moskva sank. There’s 5 ships around 5k tons, then 12 missile corvettes of 500 to 800 tons (one of which is the Askold mentioned in OP, and it was at the higher end of that range). The rest of the combat ships are things like submarines, landing craft, anti-submarine patrol, and a few others that aren’t really relevant against Ukraine.

      Considering what’s left there, this is big, if not major. It was the biggest of their missile boats, and limits how many cruise missiles Russia can lob into Ukraine on any given day.

    • Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      45
      ·
      9 months ago

      Are they lost? Yes

      Have they lost? Unfortunately no, they’re going to throw death and suffering at this conflict they started until they get what they want or they (somehow) run out of bodies to throw.

      • Squizzy@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        19
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        They have strengthened their ability to pull from prisons too which opens up hundreds of thousands of more bodies for the front lines.

        The west needs to double down and double down again in support of Ukraine.

          • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            14
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            9 months ago

            Not… really. The cost of pulling out of Ukraine isn’t just a silly little failed investment or something, it means Russia gains a stronger foothold into Europe

            • drathvedro@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              9
              ·
              9 months ago

              …letting an authoritarian state gain more power and influence?..

              That’s one weird argument. Are you implying that meddling with other state’s affairs is justified if it’s to keep it from gaining power and influence?

              • ammonium@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                6
                ·
                9 months ago

                That’s one weird argument. Are you implying morality stops at borders?

                And it’s not even meddling, they are asking for help.

                • drathvedro@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  Are you implying morality stops at borders?

                  Kind of, yeah. A moral cause in one country can be an evil wrongdoing in other. Case in point - Al-Qaeda was formed because US troops were deployed in some country in the middle east to defend someone.

                  And it’s not even meddling, they are asking for help.

                  I’m okay with helping Ukraine. I’m not okay if it’s helping only to fuck with Russia.

                • drathvedro@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  The reason I’m said this because it sounds like “preventing Russia from prospering is a good cause”, as if we’re still at cold war or something. Probably not what you’ve meant, just pointing at possible confusion in interpretation. Helping a little guy, sure, but helping only to fuck the big guy is what Putin was rambling about in his justifications about war.

              • Zetta@mander.xyz
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                9 months ago

                Helping other democracies defeat authoritarian invaders is absolutely worth fucking all of the invaders “affairs”

                • drathvedro@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  Helping other X defeat Y invaders is absolutely worth fucking all of the invaders “affairs”"

                  Try with different X and Y. See where it gets you.

            • stella@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              12
              ·
              edit-2
              9 months ago

              You don’t know what the sunk cost fallacy is.

              You seem to have this idea that Ukraine can win the war if the US gives enough support.

              Do you think it’s possible for Ukraine to lose even if they got all the information and equipment the US was able to give?

      • Murais@lemmy.one
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        17
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        9 months ago

        Imagine Vietnam-era US, but it was willing to sacrifice every warm body within its borders to win.

        Like the US, I think Russia is on a collision course with failure. But they’re going to take it a lot farther before waving a white flag. So much so that it will take the country decades to recover.

        And Ukraine won’t be looking too hot at that point anymore, either.

        • phoenixz@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          ·
          9 months ago

          Yeah that “every warm body” doesn’t work and will be Russian undoing.

          You see, in the real world you have a very limited amount of “warm bodies” to throw to begin with. Realistically speaking, only males between, say, 15 and 45, and a few women who are more fit than average. Anything else gets useless very quickly.

          Unfortunately this is also the group that forms a large part of your work force. Yes, you’ll have women left, but realistically you don’t see women picking up garbage at night.

          Russia already has a huge gap in employable people because of the bodies they threw, and the bodies that decided to bugger off and flee before the draft got to them. especially those that fled were the more intelligent ones, the (future) scientists and engineers that you need to grow your country.

          Russia is FUBAR for the next 5 decades thanks to Putin

          • Murais@lemmy.one
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            9 months ago

            Yep. The Romans fucked themselves sideways doing this a few times. You can have all the soldiers or you can have some farmers and skilled laborers. You can’t have both.