I would challenge that’s not your authentic self. That’s learned behavior.
If you have been constantly othered or made to feel out of place you will grow resentment towards certain people, and eventually people as a whole.
When everyone is authentic and kind, community happens. Consider people who LARP… they likely would get mocked alone if a single one went to the mall, but in a community with shared expectations and values they have a lot of fun!
Learning one’s authentic self is a journey. Learning boundaries (which allow you to stick to that authentic self) is also a journey. But I do recommend.
I was just making a joke, but you’re right- it’s a learned coping mechanism from iteration after iteration of excruciating relationships.
I find most people are deeply selfish and lacking in awareness, and generally unobservant to the physical and metaphorical world around us. Eventually, it’s simply easier to withdraw and try to be content with online human interaction, and real life experiences with my family and my dog. Community comes with too many strings and demands that I present as someone not myself- at least in all such attempts to-date. When I was younger and it felt more necessary to participate, I dulled society with booze and weed. Now I prefer to see clearly, though perhaps still missing the clarity that others innately possess, in social scenarios.
So sort of my point is that community only feels like work when you’re in the wrong community. An ant doesn’t wake up and so “shit I need to act like an ant today”. It just does ant stuff.
When you’re in the right crowd, it won’t feel like work.
Step 1 is figuring out who you are. A lot of people don’t even begin to get there until they’re 30yo or more–our world simply does not foster being yourself. Many others learn either much later or sadly sometimes never. Psychologically speaking, “target fixation” is a functional concept. Simply wanting something will attract you to it. Spending a lot of time dreaming of something will draw you to it. Be careful though, the same effect can happen with being jaded as well. You can of course spend your time thinking about who you are or that other people suck. I recommend the former, of course.
Step 2 is actually wild. Once you get closer and closer to being authentic and let go of the resentment, people will attract to you. Humans have an uncanny ability to sniff out fakeness, and they will avoid or ostracize you for it. When you’re in tune with yourself, it’s actually super attractive. A good example of weird being charismatic is Jack Black or Aubrey Plaza. They are not afraid to be different and people love them for it. But different isn’t the magic sauce, it’s being real.
Step 3 is now that you know who you are and people are coming to you, is to remember your boundaries. Maybe you don’t like going to the mall. So say no. You may get anxiety doing this in the beginning but it gets easier. If your friends only to be friends because you would give them a ride to the mall, they’re not your real friends. This is a nice tool to keep being certain that the people around you like you for you, not for your utility (maybe you give transportation, they emotional dump on you, maybe you always buy, etc).
Hope this helps. I’m no professional but I will do my best. I love this shit so much–it changed my life and if it can help even one person I’m all about it. I wish someone told me 20 years before I knew!
P.s. I replied to the other person that replied with a comment you may find useful as well.
Thanks for the kind words, I’m trying my best! Remember just saying something kind about something you like is also a rare art, and I hope you keep that up!
BTW, you can “follow” people on lemmy by shooting a message (even if it’s just says “Follow” in the message) and then just visit your sent messages and look for the ones that say “Follow” and click the user you sent them to. Not perfect but it’s something.
Compulsory disclaimer before I begin. I am not a mental health professional but I’m autistic and it’s my special interest. I have read dozens of psychology books, watched interviews, and have thousands of hours of research into this stuff. I love it and it’s changed my life. HOWEVER… that doesn’t mean I’m a pro, and these are topics that require a pro past a certain surface level. If that’s on the table, I can’t recommend it enough. If you get a therapist and don’t click with them in the first hour or so, I recommend moving on to another one. It’s super common in that world and not seen as offensive. If you cannot or are not ready, I don’t mind chatting with you a bit and I’ll tell you the beginning.
So you can answer a couple questions for this. Don’t feel obligated to share your answers with me, but you’re welcome to if you feel like you want to.
Question 1: Do you know you’re masking?
Yes: If you do, that is voluntary masking and you can “catch” it and try to correct. Practice makes perfect. A good example of this would be if the Boss is in town and you decide to dress a little nicer and use the big business words when you talk to them. It’s a deliberate act and it can have a purpose.
No: If you feel drained after dealing with people and you know you’re not really “one of them” even though on the surface level that would be hard to prove, that would be subconscious masking. There are many kinds but the most common category would be trauma-based. A trauma mask can be visualized like this (this is fiction, domestic abuse trigger warning): [a wife comes home to her husband already drunk and about to get physical with the kids. She’s calm in the moment, handles the husband and pacifies him. Gets him in the recliner, gets him fed and with his remote and another beer (against her wishes), and he eventually passes out in the chair. Everyone is safe. That night when all the kids are in bed, she breaks down shaking from the stress of the whole ordeal.] << That would be a description of a trauma mask. Trauma masks kick in automatically and you may not even know it’s happening in the moment but afterwards you have anxiety, feel sick, or just plain exhausted.
Question 2: Are you autistic (also sometimes wrongly called Asperger’s Syndrome)?
No: Disregard. Just for giggles, read the “yes” as well. Autism is massively under-diagnosed.
Yes: So if you’re autistic (I very briefly looked through your posts. You seem to program and have a strong sense of justice… I’m just saying I would look into it.) If you want to know more let me know, I can show you some tests that can get you a pretty good idea. Anyway, if you’re autistic, the whole thing about trauma masking could apply to your entire existence and you may not even know it. It sounds insane but it’s true and a super common shared experience among especially late-diagnosed autistics, like if you’re an adult and don’t know you’re autistic yet.
Conclusion:
If you answered “yes/no” or “yes/yes”, you have already begun your progress by being curious! Don’t forget you can have voluntary and subconscious masking at the same time so as you figure out your voluntary stuff, some subconscious stuff may still be there.
If you answered “no/no” or “no/yes” I would recommend a book by Devon Price, PhD called Unmasking Autism. Even if you’re not autistic or in some other way neurodivergent the tools to find one’s authentic self are the same (both are trauma masks, remember?). The book can be a little heavy but it’s well worth it. It has a unique way to call out stuff that we’d never even think to complain about but is super valid.
I know this was a long ass reply. I’m happy to write more. If you have questions or want those autism questionnaires, just let me know. I’m not affiliate or anything, and they’re free and anonymous as far as I’m aware.
Hey there, sorry this took so long to answer. I usually only have time to get on and type real answers at night.
A good way to find out is a combination of a couple tests. The RAADS-R is the most accurate known autism test. It is known to be over 80% accurate by itself. Here is a free one that doesn’t require registration: https://embrace-autism.com/raads-r/
I would combine that with this one, especially if you’re high-masking (this would feel like doubting you’re autistic too, but the doubt itself is not a diagnostic criteria): the CAT-Q is a good test to identify camouflaged autistic traits that you’ve learned to hide. This one is also free from the same place: https://embrace-autism.com/cat-q/
As always, feel free to ask if you have questions even if it’s not autism stuff. No promises but I’ll try my best. :) It’s a big world to navigate if you’re new to it.
Sorry for the long replies. I’m interested in trying to help if you are too. But I’m not trying to over extend here either. Let me know if you want to stop. I know it probably doesn’t seem like it but I’m putting probably 20 min in on each of these just trying to cut them down to a “normal” size… I could literally write a book on this!
A couple things: Idk what your scores are but basically the higher you get on the CAT-Q (2nd test) the higher the score should be on the RAADS-R (1st test). IIRC, the highest score ever formally recorded by someone allistic (not autistic) on the RAADS-R was 64. The other thing is, a lot of people don’t know how either that what they’re doing is “different” from allistic people, or they don’t know they’re doing it. For example, I wondered I was autistic for years and did test probably 5-6 times before I met someone autistic that was just like me and it all “clicked”. For this reason I would recommend doing the test with someone that was around you when you were very young if you can. I will also give some examples below of some of those things that don’t stand out right away if that’s not possible.
That said, we have a couple possibilities.
You simply may not be autistic. There are conditions that could look similar to autism enough to make you wonder if you are or “show up” on the test but maybe not be very high on it. cPTSD is a common one if you lived in a long-term environment when you were not physically or emotionally safe. This is a strong possibility because given that you have ADHD, there’s an extremely high chance you either grew up poor or had some sort of scarcity issues (one or more of love, food, shelter, etc)–this is believed to be the leading cause of ADHD. Remember that an estimated 80% of autistic people have ADHD, but that can be from the fact that life is pretty shit when you’re autistic and don’t know it! Less likely but possible could also be OCD or even dyslexia, both of which are SO MUCH bigger than people think.
(This one happened to me, so I’ll bring it up): You may have learned the “right” answers to these so long ago you think it’s the real you’s opinions. Here’s a couple of late diagnosed things a lot of us go through:
Maybe you know how to make eye contact… but do you actually like it? Like not that it’s useful because you can see how people respond, or that you get treated better, but is it something you genuinely want to do?
Did you line up your toys as a kid? Did other kids not follow the rules well when you played, and you tried to teach them?
What’s the most important personality trait? Is it authenticity?
How about special interests? Do you have any hobbies that you’re really good at? This is another one that high masking autistic will get wrong sometimes because maybe you don’t think you are that special at something. But do you ever watch an public figure/celebrity/expert even maybe do the thing “wrong”? Like if you’re a mechanic special interest are you going to be upset that someone didn’t look up torque specs, or if you program… and they either built code in a stupid way or formatted it with the wrong bracket style… these sorts of things. If you even notice this sort of stuff, that’s probably not the ADHD.
Do you feel like you can look right through other people and maybe know more about them than they know about themselves?
The sentiment: “Why isn’t everyone else as blunt as me?”
Sensory things: like turning down the radio when you go to park. Or clothing tags suck. Or that little nub on the small toe in your sock that always sits wrong. Is polyester the worst? Do you have a specific utensil preference, like only liking the small spoon or a specific heavy steak knife? These are some common “real life” low-support-needs experiences.
yes! i had some ocd symptoms as a kid that are barely perceviable now. i scored in the 50s in the test.
i’m trying to figure this out because i relate to the experience, but i also understand there are common symptoms shared by these conditions, and they are sometimes comorbid. i feel closer to adhd but who knows.
I hate eye contact, and yes authenticity ranks pretty high up to me.i crave deeper relationships beyond the stupid thank you and good morning pleasantries.
my special interests come and go. i have bouts when i have no interest and it will feel like life is empty, only for me to suddently find something im obssessed with and it will be the only thing i want to do for a long while. it does bother me when i’m confronted with doing it “wrong”.
i feel like i cant look through people that easily unless they are hiding behind common courtesy and norms? i dunno if i made myself clear on this one.
oh and i have no sensory issues although i’m more practical in the sense of prioritizing comfort over looks? like i notice utensils but it doesnt bother me.
i appreciate the writeup, even if it isnt helping me make sense of it that much.
is there stuff that can be done if i turn out to be autistic? there is no cure afaik right?
So you’re saying I should make friends with people who also intensely dislike people?
I would challenge that’s not your authentic self. That’s learned behavior.
If you have been constantly othered or made to feel out of place you will grow resentment towards certain people, and eventually people as a whole.
When everyone is authentic and kind, community happens. Consider people who LARP… they likely would get mocked alone if a single one went to the mall, but in a community with shared expectations and values they have a lot of fun!
Learning one’s authentic self is a journey. Learning boundaries (which allow you to stick to that authentic self) is also a journey. But I do recommend.
I was just making a joke, but you’re right- it’s a learned coping mechanism from iteration after iteration of excruciating relationships.
I find most people are deeply selfish and lacking in awareness, and generally unobservant to the physical and metaphorical world around us. Eventually, it’s simply easier to withdraw and try to be content with online human interaction, and real life experiences with my family and my dog. Community comes with too many strings and demands that I present as someone not myself- at least in all such attempts to-date. When I was younger and it felt more necessary to participate, I dulled society with booze and weed. Now I prefer to see clearly, though perhaps still missing the clarity that others innately possess, in social scenarios.
So sort of my point is that community only feels like work when you’re in the wrong community. An ant doesn’t wake up and so “shit I need to act like an ant today”. It just does ant stuff.
When you’re in the right crowd, it won’t feel like work.
Step 1 is figuring out who you are. A lot of people don’t even begin to get there until they’re 30yo or more–our world simply does not foster being yourself. Many others learn either much later or sadly sometimes never. Psychologically speaking, “target fixation” is a functional concept. Simply wanting something will attract you to it. Spending a lot of time dreaming of something will draw you to it. Be careful though, the same effect can happen with being jaded as well. You can of course spend your time thinking about who you are or that other people suck. I recommend the former, of course.
Step 2 is actually wild. Once you get closer and closer to being authentic and let go of the resentment, people will attract to you. Humans have an uncanny ability to sniff out fakeness, and they will avoid or ostracize you for it. When you’re in tune with yourself, it’s actually super attractive. A good example of weird being charismatic is Jack Black or Aubrey Plaza. They are not afraid to be different and people love them for it. But different isn’t the magic sauce, it’s being real.
Step 3 is now that you know who you are and people are coming to you, is to remember your boundaries. Maybe you don’t like going to the mall. So say no. You may get anxiety doing this in the beginning but it gets easier. If your friends only to be friends because you would give them a ride to the mall, they’re not your real friends. This is a nice tool to keep being certain that the people around you like you for you, not for your utility (maybe you give transportation, they emotional dump on you, maybe you always buy, etc).
Hope this helps. I’m no professional but I will do my best. I love this shit so much–it changed my life and if it can help even one person I’m all about it. I wish someone told me 20 years before I knew!
P.s. I replied to the other person that replied with a comment you may find useful as well.
You seem like a good person and I wish Lemmy had a way to follow people. Need more positivity in the feed. Keep it up, friend.
Thanks for the kind words, I’m trying my best! Remember just saying something kind about something you like is also a rare art, and I hope you keep that up!
BTW, you can “follow” people on lemmy by shooting a message (even if it’s just says “Follow” in the message) and then just visit your sent messages and look for the ones that say “Follow” and click the user you sent them to. Not perfect but it’s something.
If not, I’m sure I’ll see you around. Cheers!
how to even start
Compulsory disclaimer before I begin. I am not a mental health professional but I’m autistic and it’s my special interest. I have read dozens of psychology books, watched interviews, and have thousands of hours of research into this stuff. I love it and it’s changed my life. HOWEVER… that doesn’t mean I’m a pro, and these are topics that require a pro past a certain surface level. If that’s on the table, I can’t recommend it enough. If you get a therapist and don’t click with them in the first hour or so, I recommend moving on to another one. It’s super common in that world and not seen as offensive. If you cannot or are not ready, I don’t mind chatting with you a bit and I’ll tell you the beginning.
So you can answer a couple questions for this. Don’t feel obligated to share your answers with me, but you’re welcome to if you feel like you want to.
Question 1: Do you know you’re masking?
Yes: If you do, that is voluntary masking and you can “catch” it and try to correct. Practice makes perfect. A good example of this would be if the Boss is in town and you decide to dress a little nicer and use the big business words when you talk to them. It’s a deliberate act and it can have a purpose.
No: If you feel drained after dealing with people and you know you’re not really “one of them” even though on the surface level that would be hard to prove, that would be subconscious masking. There are many kinds but the most common category would be trauma-based. A trauma mask can be visualized like this (this is fiction, domestic abuse trigger warning): [a wife comes home to her husband already drunk and about to get physical with the kids. She’s calm in the moment, handles the husband and pacifies him. Gets him in the recliner, gets him fed and with his remote and another beer (against her wishes), and he eventually passes out in the chair. Everyone is safe. That night when all the kids are in bed, she breaks down shaking from the stress of the whole ordeal.] << That would be a description of a trauma mask. Trauma masks kick in automatically and you may not even know it’s happening in the moment but afterwards you have anxiety, feel sick, or just plain exhausted.
Question 2: Are you autistic (also sometimes wrongly called Asperger’s Syndrome)?
No: Disregard. Just for giggles, read the “yes” as well. Autism is massively under-diagnosed.
Yes: So if you’re autistic (I very briefly looked through your posts. You seem to program and have a strong sense of justice… I’m just saying I would look into it.) If you want to know more let me know, I can show you some tests that can get you a pretty good idea. Anyway, if you’re autistic, the whole thing about trauma masking could apply to your entire existence and you may not even know it. It sounds insane but it’s true and a super common shared experience among especially late-diagnosed autistics, like if you’re an adult and don’t know you’re autistic yet.
Conclusion:
If you answered “yes/no” or “yes/yes”, you have already begun your progress by being curious! Don’t forget you can have voluntary and subconscious masking at the same time so as you figure out your voluntary stuff, some subconscious stuff may still be there.
If you answered “no/no” or “no/yes” I would recommend a book by Devon Price, PhD called Unmasking Autism. Even if you’re not autistic or in some other way neurodivergent the tools to find one’s authentic self are the same (both are trauma masks, remember?). The book can be a little heavy but it’s well worth it. It has a unique way to call out stuff that we’d never even think to complain about but is super valid.
I know this was a long ass reply. I’m happy to write more. If you have questions or want those autism questionnaires, just let me know. I’m not affiliate or anything, and they’re free and anonymous as far as I’m aware.
do get me those questionnaries. i suspect adhd but afaik they do masking too?
also id probably trust an autistic special interest over most professionals here these days tbh.
Hey there, sorry this took so long to answer. I usually only have time to get on and type real answers at night.
A good way to find out is a combination of a couple tests. The RAADS-R is the most accurate known autism test. It is known to be over 80% accurate by itself. Here is a free one that doesn’t require registration: https://embrace-autism.com/raads-r/
I would combine that with this one, especially if you’re high-masking (this would feel like doubting you’re autistic too, but the doubt itself is not a diagnostic criteria): the CAT-Q is a good test to identify camouflaged autistic traits that you’ve learned to hide. This one is also free from the same place: https://embrace-autism.com/cat-q/
BTW/FWIW if you’re 18+ there is less reason to get formally diagnosed. University of Washington did a study some time ago which found self diagnosis is rarely wrong. The paper states, “We believe that if you have carefully researched the topic and strongly resonate with the experience of the autistic community, you are probably autistic.” Link to that PDF here: https://depts.washington.edu/uwautism/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Self-Diagnosed-Adult-Autism-Resources-handout-9-22-22.pdf
As always, feel free to ask if you have questions even if it’s not autism stuff. No promises but I’ll try my best. :) It’s a big world to navigate if you’re new to it.
i usually score barely autistic if at all in these tests and these werent different.
Sorry for the long replies. I’m interested in trying to help if you are too. But I’m not trying to over extend here either. Let me know if you want to stop. I know it probably doesn’t seem like it but I’m putting probably 20 min in on each of these just trying to cut them down to a “normal” size… I could literally write a book on this!
A couple things: Idk what your scores are but basically the higher you get on the CAT-Q (2nd test) the higher the score should be on the RAADS-R (1st test). IIRC, the highest score ever formally recorded by someone allistic (not autistic) on the RAADS-R was 64. The other thing is, a lot of people don’t know how either that what they’re doing is “different” from allistic people, or they don’t know they’re doing it. For example, I wondered I was autistic for years and did test probably 5-6 times before I met someone autistic that was just like me and it all “clicked”. For this reason I would recommend doing the test with someone that was around you when you were very young if you can. I will also give some examples below of some of those things that don’t stand out right away if that’s not possible.
That said, we have a couple possibilities.
You simply may not be autistic. There are conditions that could look similar to autism enough to make you wonder if you are or “show up” on the test but maybe not be very high on it. cPTSD is a common one if you lived in a long-term environment when you were not physically or emotionally safe. This is a strong possibility because given that you have ADHD, there’s an extremely high chance you either grew up poor or had some sort of scarcity issues (one or more of love, food, shelter, etc)–this is believed to be the leading cause of ADHD. Remember that an estimated 80% of autistic people have ADHD, but that can be from the fact that life is pretty shit when you’re autistic and don’t know it! Less likely but possible could also be OCD or even dyslexia, both of which are SO MUCH bigger than people think.
(This one happened to me, so I’ll bring it up): You may have learned the “right” answers to these so long ago you think it’s the real you’s opinions. Here’s a couple of late diagnosed things a lot of us go through:
yes! i had some ocd symptoms as a kid that are barely perceviable now. i scored in the 50s in the test.
i’m trying to figure this out because i relate to the experience, but i also understand there are common symptoms shared by these conditions, and they are sometimes comorbid. i feel closer to adhd but who knows.
I hate eye contact, and yes authenticity ranks pretty high up to me.i crave deeper relationships beyond the stupid thank you and good morning pleasantries.
my special interests come and go. i have bouts when i have no interest and it will feel like life is empty, only for me to suddently find something im obssessed with and it will be the only thing i want to do for a long while. it does bother me when i’m confronted with doing it “wrong”.
i feel like i cant look through people that easily unless they are hiding behind common courtesy and norms? i dunno if i made myself clear on this one.
oh and i have no sensory issues although i’m more practical in the sense of prioritizing comfort over looks? like i notice utensils but it doesnt bother me.
i appreciate the writeup, even if it isnt helping me make sense of it that much.
is there stuff that can be done if i turn out to be autistic? there is no cure afaik right?