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Cake day: June 5th, 2025

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  • Also wasn’t the region under Herod at the time, not formally part of the Roman empire?

    Herod was the Rome-installed representative, which was a large part of why he was so resented at the time. You’re probably getting a bit confused because Herod was from a Hebrew royal dynasty, but his successful ascent to the throne (after bloody internal power struggles in the region, and even within the same Herodic royal family) was a direct product of Rome aiding him and installing him militarily.

    Augustus wouldn’t decree a census in a client kingdom, he would have herod make the decree wouldn’t he

    I mean, outside of the bible, Josephus also records this same census happening during the same time frame. “Seems like wouldn’t have” doesn’t really hold up against historical contemporaries saying “did”.

    A census is meant to document how many people live where. Everyone going to their ancestral town doesn’t make sense

    Doesn’t make sense, to you, in a modern context, based on your present-day assumptions of how social structures are organized and what censuses are intended to measure.

    Take, for example, taxation: in modern contexts, we’d look at the number of people living in various regions and apply their taxation rules accordingly, because variations in tax rules are primarily segmented by region (i.e. this state has different taxes than that one, this county and city have their own tax rules, etc).

    In Hebrew contexts, taxation rules (particularly temple taxes) differed based on which tribe you belonged to (i.e. the Levite priests had different taxation rules than other tribes, for example). Herod, though he was a bit of a puppet installed by Rome, was himself still ethnically Hebrew and understood how those tax rules worked (as a layer on top of Roman tax codes), and so it logically follows for him to do what historical accounts record that he actually did: gather everyone in geographic locations that correspond to their tribal identities, and then count whoever’s there, then apply the per-tribe rules and do the math.

    To take another example, in the rest of Hebrew history, the most common reason for doing censuses wasn’t to determine how many people live in a spot; it’s to determine how many fighting men (and chariots, and horses, etc) your military was, and there are numerous accounts throughout the bible of those counts being segmented by tribal identity (like most of the book of Numbers, and even the book of Revelation at least references this segmentation because it was such a baseline expectation, though there’s dispute about how literally to interpret its use there).

    Basically, every time you have a Hebrew ruler going to do a census, they count the people by tribe. So again, a quick way to do that is to split everyone up geographically by tribal identity, then count the people in each spot. The ancestral-town thing is exactly in service of that repeatedly-demonstrated historical precedent.


  • …the text literally explains that everyone was supposed to go to the regions allocated for their tribe? The whole Old Testament shows that Israel is pretty big on “this area belongs to this tribe, that area belongs to that tribe” for a while. The concept of the Year of Jubilee (when any land sales that were made revert back to their original owners) puts a really fine point on this.

    But to give the exact quote from Luke 2:1-4:

    Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus, that a census be taken of all the inhabited earth. This was the first census taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. And everyone was on his way to register for the census, each to his own city. Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David,


  • I think she actually fell deep into Pizzagate, maybe due to actual concern about a pedophile ring, heard about the Epstein files, made it her whole thing, and then when Trump buried them so hard it finally actually turned her a little bit. Then she got death threats from Trump supporters for even slightly criticizing him, and that turned her hesitance into full-on rage.

    For better or worse, her whole thing is being some sort of populist crusader against the shadowy cabal of pedophiles. She’s just figured out that Trump is part of that shadowy cabal. It’s still “me taking on the hidden secret conspiracy” as her whole thing.




  • spencerwi@feddit.orgtoMicroblog Memes@lemmy.world•Pride month
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    5 months ago

    I know the legal meaning of a yellow light varies from place to place, but the effective meaning of traffic lights is:

    • Red: You shouldn’t be in the intersection. You must not find yourself in the intersection, because other traffic/pedestrians/etc are doing so, and if you’re in the intersection, you’re creating a safety problem.

    • Yellow: a Red is imminent. You should take whatever steps are safe to ensure that you will not be in the intersection when the light turns red. If that means you need to drive through to get clear, then if the path is clear, do so. If that means instead you need to stop and you can safely do so, do that.

    • Green: you can go straight through; if you’re turning in a legal direction, you can do so after safely yielding.



  • That’s an additive change, not a conflicting one.

    What you’re saying is like “the US amended its Constitution to give women the right to vote, so you can’t claim they grant the right to free speech.” The fact that the 19th amendment came after the 1st amendment does not mean the 19th amendment disagrees with the 1st amendment; rather, they address two different subjects, both of which independently needed fixing by addressing them in a foundational document.

    If anything, the Filioque, as I understand it, strengthens what I’m saying, because it was a change to say that the Holy Spirit proceeds not just from the Father, but from the Father and the Son (Jesus), since they’re one.

    That contradicts Mormon teaching even harder, since Mormon teaching is that Jesus is a distinct, separate god, and is not “one” with the Father (Yahweh) in the way that Jesus himself said he was (“I and my Father are one” in John 10; “whoever has seen me has seen the Father” in John 14) or that the rest of the Christian New Testament teach (as distinct from the Mormon editions, which have been changed based on Joseph Smith’s “visions” that all existing manuscripts were somehow secretly corrupted from some hypothetical original text that has never been found nor referenced in any writings prior to Smith coming up with the idea).


  • If the best you’ve got is “the globally-accepted definition of Christianity that was agreed upon immediately after its founding millennia ago by the closest adherents of Christianity, and was formally codified within the first couple hundred years only so as to explicitly name disagreement with this definition as specifically not being Christianity, and which was only ever disputed in mid-1800s Utah by a random dude who wanted to legitimize his brand-new polygamy cult by pretending it’s part of Christianity is not the definition of Christianity”

    …I don’t think you’re in as strong a position as you seem to think.



  • I don’t have to. The Christian church formalized it in 325AD. Joey Smith just wasn’t creative enough to come up with a new heresy. He moved too quick to “okay so let’s do multiple wives and also since my wife is objecting to that God says she’s no longer a prophet and is actually a false shepherd” when he should’ve been doing his homework to make his con more credible.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed

    EDIT: I think maybe you’re confused? I’m not asserting that the uppercase-O Orthodox Church is all of Christianity. I’m using the normal plain meaning of “orthodox”, which is “adhering to the fundamental principles held to be true by a religious group.” All Christians believe that Jesus is part of the Trinity and is fully God, because that’s what Christian means, in the same way that I can assert that all watercraft are things that can travel in water. The LDS faith is not Christian because their cult leader prophet decided stupidly to pick the defining trait of Christianity as a thing he wanted to change.


  • The Son of God who is fully one with God Himself, the second person of the Trinity, which is one God in three persons.

    A ton of the earliest writings in the church were dealing with explaining the Trinity, and nearly every time for the first several hundred years that the Christian church found it important enough to get together and publicly denounce someone as a heretic, it was because of denying some part of that equation (either the Trinity itself, or Jesus as fully God, or Jesus as fully God and one with God the Father). The LDS chucks it out in favor of their own weird “nah, actually everyone’s kinda a god, that’s what’s up with Jesus.” A history dive on “begotten, not made” and the Nicene Creed is helpful here, comparing it with LDS doctrine on the nature of Jesus and on the end times.

    That makes them heretics to orthodox Christianity (for denying that Jesus is not “one with the Father”, all homousia) for a similar reason to why Islam views Christians as heretics (because Islam views the Trinity as an assertion of multiple gods, counter to “Allah is one”).

    A lot of people see a sort of “X derived from Y” and assume based on lack of any further digging that X and Y are interchangeable, when the very derivation from should call to attention that there was a fork in the road where beliefs diverged. Some of those forks are more divergent from one another than others; Presbyterians and Baptists have more in common than Presbyterians and Catholics, and those two groups themselves have more in common than Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox, and still Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have much more in common than LDS and any Christian denomination you could pick from a hat.


  • I take it they used the King James “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord your God in vain” translation, rather than the more-accurate “you will not carry the name of Yahweh your God for empty purposes”

    …like for example, using Yahweh’s name in empty displays of faux piety while ignoring the poor and oppressed.




  • No.

    I might, if what they did were severe enough, express that what they did is disappointing. But that’s different from branding them with the iron of disappointment-as-identity. Everyone does stuff sometimes that is worse than they aspire to be. The trick is coming back from it, learning and growing and changing.

    I remember how it felt the day I asked my mom, after she had screamed at me and hit me a bunch for stuff she made up about me, “what did I ever do to you to make you hate me this much?”, and she screamed back “YOU WERE BORN!” And I believed she meant it, because none of this was out of character.

    I was 12.

    No kid should ever feel the hopelessness and abandonment I felt in that moment.