I basically just gave three (or at least 2, as the DISCO one maybe is a bit iffy) examples of modern Star Trek scrutinizing the means despite the obstensibly good ends.

Also, another example is S2 E2 “Ad Astra Per Aspera” borderline almost literally puts “the moral cost of the means” (keeping good genetically modified people like Una out of Starfleet) that is ostensibly done for the ends of preventing another Eugenics Wars. I wouldn’t hesitate to call this episode one of the best in the whole franchise, very much in the tradition of court case ethical discussion episodes like “Measure of a Man”.

I don’t think one can make a blanket statement about newer Star Trek quitting “believing something”; sure, it may be uneven in quality (maybe more than classic)*, but dismissing all of “NuTrek” out of hand is akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

: I mean, there’s whatever DIS season 2 was, Section 31, most of PIC, etc., but also, it’s not like good swathes of classic Trek aren’t also kind of crap - I mean, there’s the time Riker murdered his clone and nobody batted an eye, as well as TOS S3, TNG S1, and the inconsistency of VOY. Even in the good classic episodes, it’s not like every one is “do the ends justify the means” - in addition to other ethical themes, classic Trek still had room for simply "Cool sci-fi s** happened and we have to deal with it", not to mention episodes focused on interpersonal drama like “Data’s Day” or any of Deanna’s “Oh f*** my mother is on board” episodes.

I would say it depends.

I mean, the ends not justifying the means is kind of the entire point of DISCO S1 (whether or not the rest of DISCO embodied it is a different matter); Burnham has to let go of what Lorca summarizes as “Universal law is for lackeys. Context is for kings.” or in other words, the ends often justify the means.

Also, SNW is better about it, than say, PIC; for instance, SNW S3 E7 “What is Starfleet?” from 2025, for all its flaws (including in some ways being very similar to TNG “Tin Man”), basically has the crew going “WTF! The ends (saving an alien race from a war they didn’t start) do not justify the means (enslaving a sentient space whale)!” Also, SNW 1x06 is basically “ends don’t justify means”, although mostly because it basically copied “The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas”.

A long time ago, I tried to tune a Piper voice using Majel Barrett’s speech from her reading of the novel “Q In Law”, but I didn’t get very far - just a small amount of training data collected.

I agree; for reasons other people have discussed in detail here, I think Majel Barrett is probably one of the least ethically ambiguous actors you can do this with.

I can get it being back by the 32nd century, but I still wonder why Nova Squadron (or any elite academy group beyond a simple honors society) came back in Prodigy relatively shortly after:

1. The Locarno incidents
2. That time Red Squad tried to take over THE ENTIRE FREAKIN’ FEDERATION.

I felt better once they got out the prisons; the ship aesthetics have some generic sci-fi aesthetic to them, but having the reds in them makes it feel overall much brighter and Trek-y. Honestly, even though it’s not as bright as TNG, just being able to actually see scenes was nice.

Late gen Z, generally modern indie centric tastes; there might be a deeper genre name than that, but that’s what I can think of off the top of my head. Also has some 70s-90s stuff, including picking up a few of my favorite They Might Be Giants songs, mostly Lincoln-era stuff.

I don’t know.

If anything, me and my younger sibling were actively annoyed by a lot of the show’s music choices, and modern show music in general. In both this show and recent Stranger Things seasons, they put music in every single moment, even moments that should be silent.

But what about Lower Decks volume 2?

Or yt-dlp.

I don’t think they’re doing so much of a TOS reboot as a TOS continuation with some retconning and reusing some SNW sets and cast.

I’ve heard it floated around that it would depict the start of Kirk’s mission, which TOS didn’t depict, showing the crew already relatively comfortable with the ship. Personally, I’d like them to something of a year 4/5 that takes place either during or after TAS. As I mention elsewhere in this thread, I think “Yesteryear” would be an awesome remake; it could be pulled off in one 50 minute episode (already double TAS length), but I think it would be awesome to extend it to a two parter.

Not sure I’d want a full TOS reboot, but I think a few more retcons wouldn’t hurt so long as they’re in the overall spirit of Trek.

What I’ve mentioned before that I think would be interesting to see is a remake of the TAS episode Yesteryear. Most TAS stories are probably best left as such, or else they would lose their campy charm, but I think Yesteryear could benefit, especially from the dramatic storytelling recent live action Trek has focused on. We could get so much good Vulcan lore out of it, and I’d hope they could do awesome set and costume design.

In my ideal episode, it’s still weeks to months until Sarek takes in Burnham; I feel like otherwise, Spock wouldn’t have to be going back in time to save himself.

To be fair, 5 seasons has become a miracle for any scripted television to attain, period. Heck, even 3 is lucky these days.

Also, I have a feeling they’ve known 5 seasons was the length for a while and have written the ending in a way that allows them to end the show largely on their own terms.

I wish Lemmy had a way to distinguish between disliking the news and shooting the messenger.

Eh, the Pegasus tattoo doesn’t look great; half of it is missing. Must be embedded in the skin or something…

Me waiting for Star Trek Lower Decks Volume 2, or at least a repressing of volume 1:

They did do something with the butt bugs in the IDW comics recently…

It’s nice that they still put out Trek physical media.

It’s just really weird that SNW stuff seem to be the franchise’s only 4K Blu-Ray releases (besides film remasters and Kelvin timeline, of course) - everything else with a decent resolution has only been released in 1080p. Like, objectively, I can hardly complain about 1080p, and any more than that for LD and PRO is probably pointless, but it’s really weird that PIC and DIS don’t have it for the seasons that were filmed for 4K.

Also, if they’re not going to renew PRO, can they at least give it the dignity of a complete series set, or at the very least a season 1 Blu-Ray so I don’t have to buy episodes 1-10 and 11-20 separately?!

Yeh, perhaps it’s one of those things Star Trek should leave unanswered, like they should have done with Breen. The Breen are supposed to be a meme!

“Move Along Home” is a masterpiece; it’s the kind of bad episode that’s really fun to watch.

But yeh, I think it’s really stupid to dismiss a show based on its first season.

I just dont like any of the characters

Not even Saru? 😢