WithoutFurtherDelay

The landlord fucking charged me a cleaning fee for the sheet left on the bedbug infested mattress

I don’t think there’s any meaningful distinction that’s reliable. The most fucked up goals do seem to be mostly external, though. Toxic things like success aren’t things people chase because they’ve developed an irrational love of being successful, but because they’re physically punished and socially ostracized for not being that.

In other words, the most harmful desires aren’t desires anyone actually has, but impossible goals they think they should want but don’t even pretend to want in reality.

People want to do art. Nobody actually wants to be a successful businessman, though. They want all the stuff that comes from being a successful businessman but being a successful businessman is actually universally perceived as quite shitty and unenjoyable in reality.

I looked up Marcuse and on a really primitive reading of his Wikipedia article, while I disagree with his negative views of the USSR, his views seem to be way more in line with reality than Ted’s

It’s not pathologizing, quite the opposite, OP is saying that the industry is necessary because a normal human behavior exists that the constant drive for commodity production interrupts

Capitalism doesn’t cause differences, it makes behavior that isn’t strictly in line with the norm much more dangerous to the person having it.

I find it fascinating how the Unabomber and, to an extent, anyone who advocates weird, “every society not built on killing and eating is bad” worldviews, they can see this concept of surrogate goals but immediately jump to invalidating them. What makes the desire to become the best rock thrower in the world any more valid than the desire to survive? More people certainly want the latter, but in the absence of a god or higher power to give us some sort of direction, these surrogate goals are as equally valid as any human endeavor ever ventured upon.

What I suggest seems superficially preposterous, I mean, anyone can tell that not starving is more important than becoming the best rock thrower. But that’s the thing- we only think that because the majority of people do not want to starve. Both the desire to throw rocks and the desire to eat are rooted in our biology, one is just more popular and therefore well supported (and, to be clear, should be supported, I think not starving is more important than rock throwing too)

In fact, most of this is pretty much just nonsense. Most “surrogate” desires never reach the level of toxicity or self harm that exists today in corporate culture or even religion.

Also art is not a fake desire ffs

I would go as far as suggesting that these supposedly fake desires only exist or become truly fake when people are forced to submit to them. When someone is pursuing a “surrogate” or supposedly fake desire without being forced to by conditions or the current mode of production, they’re usually pretty content with it, or experience it as an enjoyable vibe rather than a painful goal, therefore something that can be truly satisfied, like eating or sleep. See art communities for this. There are examples of toxic behavior and attitudes in art communities but they always seem to coincide with a desire to commodify one’s art or as a side effect or the idea of productivity.

I’m used to everything pro-Ukraine on this instance being downvoted to hell. Everyone who supports Russia is being downvoted instead. What is going on?

IQ is basically an ableist conspiracy theory (or so I’ve heard), but otherwise I agree

These are billionaires, they probably don’t know what love is