Hey Folks!
I’ve been living abroad for over half my life in a country where tipping is not the norm. At most you would round up. 19€ bill? Here’s a 20, keep this change.
Going to the US soon to visit family and the whole idea of tipping makes me nervous. It seems there’s a lot of discussion about getting rid of tipping, but I don’t know how much has changed in this regard.
The system seems ridiculously unfair, and that extra expense in a country where everything is already so expensive really makes a difference.
So will AITA if I don’t tip? Is it really my personal responsibility to make sure my server is paid enough?
It seems there’s a lot of discussion about getting rid of tipping, but I don’t know how much has changed in this regard.
Nothing has changed, and it never will, as it concerns poor and “therefore” “deserving” people. Americans’ talk is cheap.
The system seems ridiculously unfair, and that extra expense in a country where everything is already so expensive really makes a difference.
Agreed. So when you go to a restaurant and you have a maximum amount you can spend, divide the amount of money you have by (100% + local sales tax), then divide by (100% + the menu price), and subtract any surcharges added by the restaurant (assume $5.00 if you cannot look it up), often masquerading as a tip. I know it’s a lot of math, but you have a computer in your pocket. You’ll manage.
In my view, the US is a fractal scam. At every level, everything is an attempt to extract money from ill-informed “suckers”, from the running of the government, to the prices of supermarket groceries, to the tipping culture at restaurants, to even finding a place to put your car [1]. Every single thing is someone’s grift. In order to function in America, you need to be willing to be suckered to some extent. There’s no way around it. Unfairness is baked into every transaction, and increasingly more social interactions.
Everything in America is ridiculously unfair. We wear this on our sleeves, and for many Americans this fact defines their personality. Unfortunately, you will have to deal with it in the short term at least.
Now if you would like to be the one to lead the charge against the tipping culture and the foisting of responsibility for servers’ compensation onto the customer, then be my guest. Refuse to tip and make a big scene about it. Make plans for how to take the inertia of your big struggle and turn it into a mass movement. I would thrilled to join you. However, I somehow doubt that you’re ready to go that far; none of the customers who stiffed me ever went on to start anti-tipping movements.
So will AITA if I don’t tip?
Yes. You are expected by all members of the public here to tip. That is our culture, something we’re proud of for some reason, and our expectation. For some servers, tips are the primary source of income at work.
Is it really my personal responsibility to make sure my server is paid enough?
No, it is the responsibility of the employer. However, when no employer takes their responsibility and you sit yourself down at a restaurant, the logical conclusion is that either you pay that part of the server’s wages, or they get stiffed. You know that this is the conclusion. (Or if not, now you do.)
If you want to participate in our unique restaurant scam, you gotta accept that you’re going to get suckered into paying the server’s wages. Otherwise, don’t go to restaurants. When you go to a restaurant, you waste the employees’ finite time on this planet doing tedious, physically and mentally demanding bullshit that no sane person would choose to engage with, if not faced with the threats of homelessness and starvation. [2] At least make it worth their while.
Sorry if I come off as having a chip on my shoulder, but that’s only because I totally do. So many customers used to concern-troll me as a pizza delivery person and give me shit like “sorry, couldn’t afford to tip, they should really pay you more.” Yeah, they should, but you absolutely could have tipped; all you had to do was order one less topping. I’d love to see some actual solidarity with food service employees, but that would require challenging deep-rooted assumptions about our culture and we’re too shit-for-brains to do that. Americans are so compassionate and empathetic until the moment they actually have to lift a finger.
So when someone brings up “unfairness” or “it’s X’s responsibility to pay the workers” in response to tipping, I just kinda die a little inside from all the times those sentiments have been used against me and my colleagues.
[1] And don’t even get me started on the process of buying a car, or how the public was scammed into accepting a car-centric infrastructure.
[2] This is really a special case of the logic behind the antiwork movement: nobody actually wants to go to work. We only go to work under the threats of starvation and homelessness imposed by capitalism.
Solid rant. No, really, I enjoyed it til the end. Spot on!
the US is a fractal scam. At every level, everything is an attempt to extract money from ill-informed “suckers”, from the running of the government, to the prices of supermarket groceries, to the tipping culture at restaurants, to even finding a place to put your car [1]. Every single thing is someone’s grift. In order to function in America, you need to be willing to be suckered to some extent. There’s no way around it. Unfairness is baked into every transaction, and increasingly more social interactions.
What a quote. I will add that “we” also like to believe we have the most fair system. And in many ways, the “gotchas” are much more hidden and systemic than other countries. For example, you might be scammed haggling with someone in Southeast Asia, but we get scammed everyday by credit card companies making bank on every single transactions.
Such a fantastic statement. I agree wholeheartedly on all fronts and really admired reading the thought process summarized so clearly. You obviously had lots of time to drive and rumenate after getting stiffed but it’s appreciated here.
I’d say yes. The situation is complex.
It’s clear that tipping culture is out of control. There are many places asking for 20% tips even when ordering from a counter where the interaction takes about 10 seconds.
Unfortunately there has also been a systematic underpayment of wages which has occurred largely on the back of tips. In some states it is even legal to pay less than minimum wage and supplement that with tips. For that reason, it’s not really an option to simply not tip without being the bad guy.
Certainly the system needs to change, but as of this moment in the US, just assume everything actually costs 20% more and tip.
it’s not really an option to simply not tip without being the bad guy
My man you have got to shake this from your psyche, that’s exactly how the employers that aren’t paying their employees want you to feel. You’re offloading their greed and systematic exploitation of working class people onto yourself under the misplaced guise of personal guilt. There may not a way to immediately fix the problem, but I can guarantee it will never get fixed if we dont change anything.
What are you suggesting is changed though?
He’s suggesting “fuck the worker, it isn’t my problem if they can’t pay rent, they should learn to code.” And somehow that will make the business owner pay them a fair wage and not replace them with a machine or a 16yo kid.
In some cases we’re talking about people making $2.13 an hour in a country where you’re easily paying $1,000 a month or even more for a studio apartment. I’d say if you don’t tip you’re the bad guy.
This type of change isn’t going to come from people just deciding that waitstaff should starve and refusing to tip. If anything it will come from unionization of waitstaff or from legislation.
I mean, in a lot of ways it already is. More and more people aren’t taking theses jobs that pay shit, and yours constantly seeing places fold or be understaffed. It’s also a little disingenuous to use the extreme as an example. The vast majority of tourist destinations (relevant because OP) are not paying below minimum+ tips. It would be helpful if OP Said where they were going but assuming it’s a popular destination, they don’t need to be heavy handed. It’s also misleading to paint it as black and white “assume tipping 20%” everywhere is bad advice. There is no expectation to tip for over the counter service, take out, etc. That is a fairly recent evolution and one that is already backfiring. If OP isn’t sitting down in a restaurant where they have a server waiting on them for 30-60 minutes, they are probably absolutely fine not tipping. 15% is also still acceptable, 20% is excessive unless the service was absolutely excellent.
No, the bad guy is still the employer, and the culture that exploits both employees and customers and pits them against one another.
Meals in the US are not cheaper than meals in other countries. The menu price is roughly the same. Meals plus tips in the US cost significantly more than meals in other countries.
However staff generally benefit from this arrangement. Places that have trialed better wages and no tips have found that staff make less than what they did if they got tips. So only the customer actually wants a fair deal out of it, and everyone else isn’t willing to change.
It’s actually not necessarily the employer’s fault- if they don’t own the restaurant (and most don’t) the commercial landlord can force them to hire at tipped wage because they likely have a revenue sharing agreement.
just assume everything actually costs 20% more and tip.
And by “everything”, you mean “not actually everything, but you’d need a 400 page manual to describe what gets tipped and what doesn’t”.
In most states it’s legal to pay less than minimum wage (literally around $2 per hour) for workers who get tips.
One issue is that workers generally make more money off tips than if they just got minimum wage. So it’s not just employers that are unwilling to change.
It’s only legal if their tips exceed the minimum wage. Whether or not the employee would ask for the difference over fear of retaliation is another story
Yes, you do have to tip. Maybe not if it’s Chipotle or a place like that. But if someone is waiting your table you have to tip. Yes tipping culture is stupid. No, nothing has changed in the US. They do not have a living without tips, so refusing to tip cuts into their living expenses after they have courteously served you your food. It’s rude
trouble is that by tipping you are enforcing tipping culture, giving the employers an excuse to underpay. You can’t win…
Tipping culture comes from minimum wage laws. Laws need to change before culture could change.
Yeah, but you can change that by going to the rare places that have a no tipping policy. Don’t just refuse to tip servers knowing that that’s the only way they get paid.
I have come across a couple restaurants that specify that they are “no tip.” I try to keep an eye out for those and try to give business to them. Or I avoid places with that expectation. But I usually tip around 20% in those common circumstances mentioned in this thread. I hate the system though. It’s parasitic and manipulative.
American here. Here’s the three common contexts for tipping. Everything else is something someone’s trying to make a thing rather than actually a thing:
-
Restaurants: If someone is bringing food from the Kitchen to your table
-
Delivery: If someone’s delivering food. Or they’re personally delivering groceries.
-
Transportation: If someone’s driving you personally. Like a Taxi.
Some say you should tip bathroom attendants. I’ve never even seen a bathroom attendant, but that seems like such a bizarre job to tip for, even by American standards.
Bartenders are a case that you’ve missed. A standard cash rate is $1 per drink. Bartenders have a lot of leeway when it comes to how quickly you’re served, and how strong your drinks will be, so tipping well may be in your interest.
And barbers/hairstylists. Unlikely to come up during a short visit though.
-
Only time tipping should be observed is when you’re at a restaurant that seats you at a table and takes your order. And when you order delivery. Anything else is just people gaming the system to get whatever they can from people.
Edit: I missed bartenders (sorry!). Tip your bartender! They will take care of you if you tip well.
Delivery as well. If you don’t top the pizza delivery person I would assume they will very much not like you.
This is the way
Yes. You really have to tip. 20%. Sorry. And tax isn’t included in the prices of things. That’s the way things work here and you can choose to spend the whole time being annoyed by it or not. But please don’t make a personal protest that only hurts some of the lowest paid and hardest working people.
To be as clear as possible - the minimum wage for tipped staff is $2.13/hr. That’s why you have to tip.
This is deceiving though. In The US tipping is literally everywhere now.
If you are waited on, I. E. Sat at a table or served at a bar, tipping is expected. If you go to a counter and place an order and someone hands you something while you’re standing there, those workers aren’t making 2.13/hr.
I don’t tip if there’s no service being provided. Bringing my food to my table after I ordered it from a kiosk and filled up my own drink at the soda fountain doesn’t qualify.
And this isn’t universal either. For example, Culver’s will bring your food out to you but you don’t tip. So I would add that if you’re waited on and pay for the meal AFTER eating and being waited on, then you tip.
This does depend on which state you’re in (some states don’t have a “tipped wage”), but the vast majority of service workers are not raking in the big bucks, so be generous if you can!
Not true, restuarants have to make up the difference in their wage if they dont make enough in tips.
Yes, up to minimum wage, which is still often not enought to live on.
It’s definitely not enough to live on, but that’s beside the point, isn’t it? I don’t tip any other people because they earn minimum wage-- do you? The point is that the person isn’t actually making only $2/hr-- they’re making at least minimum wage, with the opportunity to make more via tips.
Tipping needs to end, and the laws changed to reflect it.
Being a waiter is a skilled job that deserves more than minimum wage.
I don’t disagree, but that is irrelevant to the discussion, is it not?
That’s just my response to the argument that you can choose to not tip because waiters will make minimum wage regardless. Minimum wage is not an appropriate salary for that line of work.
However, yes, I agree that laws should be changed to remove tipping or at least to require restaurant owners to pay an appropriate wage for the work with optional tips on top for exceptional service.
Do you tip the Walmart Greeter? Why or why not?
Yeah, legally.
In practice? Lol
A higher federal minimum wage would solve this problem. Employers are required by law to make up the difference between the base wage and the federal minimum wage ($7.25/hr) if nobody tips.
But obviously $7.25 isn’t a living wage either, so any tipped employee that actually makes the federal minimum is living almost entirely on tips.
That’s assuming that employers follow the law, which for restaurants is rarely the case.
If the service is bad I would go for 10%
Only if it’s really bad though, and on purpose.
If it was something the employee couldn’t control or just a generally bad experience that was nobody’s fault, still 20%. Place is swamped and the waiter never gave me a drink refill because they’re the only one on the floor, still 20%.
I had one friend whose personal rule of thumb was:
- did they come to my table to take my order?
- did they bring my food to my table?
- did they bus my table for me after?
If they did 2/3, then they got a tip.
If you’re eating fast food, you don’t have to tip, though they’ve been asking much more than usual lately.
If you’re at a sit-down restaurant or having something delivered, tipping is standard.
15-20% is normal.
And it’s more offensive to tip low than to not tip at all. A low tip means they did a bad job, no tip might just be a protest against tipping.
Yeah, tipping culture sucks. I prefer eating at places that deliberately tell you not to tip, but they are few and far between.
Just FYI, we have recently had a huge influx of electronic systems asking for tips in places that tips didn’t exist before. I only tip when I sit down to eat at a restaurant and they serve me. If you walk up to the counter to order, you don’t tip. If you are ordering takeout (even at a sit-down restaurant), you don’t tip.
It’s a really fucking stupid system that most of us hate, but if you don’t participate, you are the asshole according to our culture (even though we know it’s really the businesses not paying their employees enough that are really the assholes)
Edit: oh, and then “suggested tip” went up around the same time that these electronic systems popped up. My whole life, a 10% tip was bad, a 15% tip was average. A 20% tip was good. Now it seems the “suggested tip” says you should tip 20% minimum. I think this is bullshit, and I ignore it. The people who are suggesting the tip are the ones that benefit from it going higher. They are always going to try to increase it as long as they can get away with it. I stick to the 10/15/20% rule.
There’s been a small movement towards going tipless that hasn’t yet caught on because tip culture is primarily backed by greed. Restaurant owners want customers to pay their employees directly instead of providing them with a decent wage.
I know I’m likely misrepresenting, but that’s the gist as I see it, and until greed goes away everything @dandroid@dandroid.app said holds true.
Restaurant owners want customers to pay their employees directly instead of providing them with a decent wage.
A lot of employees want this as well. Those who do well in well traveled restaurants or bars then to make WELL over the minimum wage. This is why the employees get mad at the patron/client rather than their employer when they don’t get a tip. It works… it’s what many of them want.
The sad part is that prices for things have already been going up considerably… So what was a $5 tip @ 10% years ago is now closer to $20 tip @ 20% today for the same meals/amount of food. It isn’t a 2x increase at all… Since it’s % based on subtotal and those costs have been going up… it’s significantly more if you follow their “minimum” percent tips.
I follow something similar to Dandroid and refuse to change. I only tip for sit-down restaurants where an actual servers brings me my food. If I get shit service, you’re not getting a tip. If it’s basic service, you’ll get 10%… 15% for “good”… 20% for outstanding. Although looking at the laws in my state, I’m debating on cutting it back considerably. Minimum wage in my state is not the $3.and change per hour for those positions. It’s just about $11 and the normal minimum wage is $13 and change. So if I’m the only table in their whole section, and I tip 2$ per hour, they’re making minimum wage. And people here still complain about the tipping… The only explanation is greed… and I can’t stand that at all.
As I recall, restaurants can get by with giving workers well below minimum wage because of tips.EDIT: I just re-read your post
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
This is a great resource when these discussions come up. Many states do NOT adhere to the $2.13 tipped wage.
In my state (AZ) it’s $10.85. People here still complain about tips. The minimum wage here is $13.85. The $3 difference is nearly guaranteed as long as long as you have 1 table an hour. Forget that the normal where I live is probably closer to 3-4 every hour. [I recognize that other areas may not have such traffic. But I can only comment on what I observe]
If the average table is leaving ~$5 in tips… you could easily make $30 an hour in wages.
This is why I say what I say… It’s absurd when I hear local news or something complaining. $30/hr is stupid “livable”.
“I could do profit sharing and have all my employees benefit from busting their ass, or I could pay them next to nothing and force the customers to supplement their income out of respect or pity.”
It shouldn’t shock anyone that the practice of tipping has a racist history.
Please continue to tip service workers.
Yep, 100% the asshole if you’re eating out at restaurants here and you don’t tip. Other things can be a little more debatable, but the 15-20% standard for eating at a restaurant is set in stone. If you don’t tip or give a low tip, the server will assume you hated their service or that you’re just an ass. It’s a dumb rule, but it is what it is here right now.
Yes you need to tip if you are at a sit-down restaurant with a server taking your order at the table.
Whether or not you or anyone else agrees with that, it is the cultural norm and you would absolutely be rude not to.
If you are uncomfortable with this, choose to eat somewhere where you won’t be expected to tip. Don’t knowingly go to a restaurant where tipping is expected and then refuse to do so out of principle.
Also tipping at bars is generally expected.
i hope i can avoid ever having to come to the US.
I feel the same way except I’m already here.
Definitely tip. If you think the whole system sucks that’s fine, but don’t take out that frustration on the likely vastly underpaid employees
You enter a social compact when you enter an establishment that does tipping. When you don’t tip, you’re not making it better, your making sure someone goes hungry
if:
a. a person “has” to rely on other people to tip them
b. said person goes “hungry” if a single person/table doesn’t tip themyou… uh… have other issues to think about
Like that our entire economic system is broken in such a way that this is a thing that happens? Yes. At the restaurant is not the time to get on your soapbox, and the exploited service provider you’re refusing the tip is not the person to be taking it out on
and are these exploited people doing anything to change this? the consumer is the last between the three (employer, worker, consumer) that should have anger directed towards them
as it’s their issue its their soapbox not mine, this annoying custom made it to country where they are paid enough as well
Have you worked in the industry? This happens!
My view is: I don’t like this cultural element, and I am glad that I live in a country without it. But if I am a visitor from abroad I would not resist the local culture and try to impose my own values. If I am aware of this cultural element and I dislike it, my options would be to either avoid restaurants and other tipping situations as much as I can, or simply account for the tip when making my financial decisions, and pay it.
If I live in the country then it is different, because then I am more entitled to be a driver of change. Personally, my approach would be to support businesses with explicit no-tipping policy, and to refuse receiving tips myself.
No one can force to tip and as Americans we hate the tipping culture too.
Some people love it, namely the ones that have most to gain.
So business owners, and extremely attractive waitstaff
Sort of — there are definitely restaurants which include gratuity, either for all parties or for parties greater than X people (e.g., 5 or more).
One of the best answers so far, thanks! I’m not a foreigner, but I’ve been gone for over half my life, so it certainly feels like it. Coming back it always a culture shock.
“yes, it’s wrong. but if you don’t tip, you are making the waiter go hungry”
WTF? no, the bosses are. generally bosses are making their employees go hungry, but in the restaurant business they just managed to shift the blame unto the customers. it seems really twisted to me
where i live tipping is really optional, and most don’t, unless they’re rounding up the bill. i have several friends who do or did work as a waiter and i aways found it sad how they would talk with resentment about the customers they would pretend to like, not sparing a word for their bosses who were sucking them dry with low wages, unpaid extra hours and a fuckin’ sick workplace culture
