What we’re telling y’all is that voting one more time for a neoliberal isn’t going to make a meaningful change in stopping the inevitable descent into fascism that neoliberal policies have facilitated for the last 40 or 50 years.
It’s like the saying goes: the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
You’re saying in one breath that Trump and Biden are the same and in the next that voting for either one of them equally insane. Both of those things are plainly false.
Won’t make a difference means zero difference but Trump is literally the accelerationist choice.
Surely what the Democrats are doing is effective, and Christo fascism is now less of a threat than it was in 2016 and 2020. Right? They should clearly keep doing the same thing, it’s working super well!
The thing is: the US is not a well-functioning democracy. It currently tries to be to some extent, but it’s system especially at the national level is set up in a way that heavily biases power towards wealthy interests and rural states, both of which tend to favor conservative politics, and which mathematically garuntees only two parties can be viable at a time, with third parties merely providing a negative effect on whatever major party is closer to them. In a well designed democratic system, there’d be a much greater variety of political groups to support such that one that actually reasonably approximates a given person’s views may exist, and voting for those groups would have practical consequence. But, we don’t have that. Voting isn’t completely inconsequential, hence one should still do it, but in our current state it’s not enough to fix things by itself. But again, since it still does something even if not enough, it makes sense to try to get as much utility as possible out of it. At the moment, the only candidates that have any chance whatsoever of winning are a neoliberal and a fascist. Now, you can argue that the popularity of the fascist is a result of the failures of neoliberal policies and so voting for the candidate supporting those policies won’t stop the popularity of the fascist ones, and that could be true- but the fascist is just going to bring about the fascist policies even faster. “The candidate that can fix things” isn’t on the ballot of either major party right now, and the system mathematically garuntees that third parties are counterproductive at this level, so voting for meaningful change isn’t an option here.
I’m not saying one should give up pushing for meaningful change. I’m saying that at the moment, getting that change is going to require more than just voting, at least at the national level and especially in the presidential election. I do not plan on voting for Biden in the coming general election because I am under some illusion that he’s going to fix things. I plan on voting for him to stall for time. It isn’t exiting, it’s downright depressing, but on balance, it’s still more moral in my view to take that option than the fascistic one, or to do nothing at all.
Exactly… It’s almost like there’s no interest to change any of that from those who benefit and continuing to vote for them or support them will continue to perpetuate this inevitable spiral.
Sometimes the only winning move is not to play. - Joshua (John Wood), War Games, 1983
Hi, it’s me, a Palestinian American, how about don’t use my people’s plight to justify letting the guy who wants to deport my ass for liking Knaffeh get into office?
I have enough issues without truck nuts McGee feeling re-emboldened to call me Sand Nigger and Towelhead.
I’m not the guy who wants Trump in office. I’m just the one who doesn’t want to vote for somebody who is repeatedly bypassing Congress to send weapons to literal fascists committing war crimes. That’s someone I can’t just hold my nose and vote for. His political career is over.
Why can’t we have any of the other people who ran in the 2020 Democratic primaries instead of Biden? This idea that it absolutely has to be Biden or else the DNC will let the country fall apart with Trump is so completely messed up.
Perfect time to teach Biden a lesson by not voting for him – or so I’ve been told by those with too much privilege and not enough brainpower.
They’re all over the fucking place here. It’s wild. They’re almost for certain foreign cointelpro.
Where do I collect my cheque?
What we’re telling y’all is that voting one more time for a neoliberal isn’t going to make a meaningful change in stopping the inevitable descent into fascism that neoliberal policies have facilitated for the last 40 or 50 years.
It’s like the saying goes: the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
You’re saying in one breath that Trump and Biden are the same and in the next that voting for either one of them equally insane. Both of those things are plainly false.
Won’t make a difference means zero difference but Trump is literally the accelerationist choice.
You need to work on your reading comprehension. I never said they are the same. I said one is the product of the other.
People have been telling you this would happen for forty or fifty years.
My reading comprehension is just fine. You need an argument and it’s not the one that you’re getting.
Surely what the Democrats are doing is effective, and Christo fascism is now less of a threat than it was in 2016 and 2020. Right? They should clearly keep doing the same thing, it’s working super well!
Actually? 😂
Yes. Actually. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-trump-tied-outset-us-election-year-reutersipsos-poll-2024-01-10/
Cheque? lol don’t give yourself away too hard comrade.
I know this is doing to be fucking mind-blowing to you, bust some of us are dual nationals.
The thing is: the US is not a well-functioning democracy. It currently tries to be to some extent, but it’s system especially at the national level is set up in a way that heavily biases power towards wealthy interests and rural states, both of which tend to favor conservative politics, and which mathematically garuntees only two parties can be viable at a time, with third parties merely providing a negative effect on whatever major party is closer to them. In a well designed democratic system, there’d be a much greater variety of political groups to support such that one that actually reasonably approximates a given person’s views may exist, and voting for those groups would have practical consequence. But, we don’t have that. Voting isn’t completely inconsequential, hence one should still do it, but in our current state it’s not enough to fix things by itself. But again, since it still does something even if not enough, it makes sense to try to get as much utility as possible out of it. At the moment, the only candidates that have any chance whatsoever of winning are a neoliberal and a fascist. Now, you can argue that the popularity of the fascist is a result of the failures of neoliberal policies and so voting for the candidate supporting those policies won’t stop the popularity of the fascist ones, and that could be true- but the fascist is just going to bring about the fascist policies even faster. “The candidate that can fix things” isn’t on the ballot of either major party right now, and the system mathematically garuntees that third parties are counterproductive at this level, so voting for meaningful change isn’t an option here.
I’m not saying one should give up pushing for meaningful change. I’m saying that at the moment, getting that change is going to require more than just voting, at least at the national level and especially in the presidential election. I do not plan on voting for Biden in the coming general election because I am under some illusion that he’s going to fix things. I plan on voting for him to stall for time. It isn’t exiting, it’s downright depressing, but on balance, it’s still more moral in my view to take that option than the fascistic one, or to do nothing at all.
Exactly… It’s almost like there’s no interest to change any of that from those who benefit and continuing to vote for them or support them will continue to perpetuate this inevitable spiral.
Or you could say that this issue and all the others mean so little to the Democratic Party that running anybody but Genocide Joe is off the table.
Hi, it’s me, a Palestinian American, how about don’t use my people’s plight to justify letting the guy who wants to deport my ass for liking Knaffeh get into office?
I have enough issues without truck nuts McGee feeling re-emboldened to call me Sand Nigger and Towelhead.
I’m not the guy who wants Trump in office. I’m just the one who doesn’t want to vote for somebody who is repeatedly bypassing Congress to send weapons to literal fascists committing war crimes. That’s someone I can’t just hold my nose and vote for. His political career is over.
Why can’t we have any of the other people who ran in the 2020 Democratic primaries instead of Biden? This idea that it absolutely has to be Biden or else the DNC will let the country fall apart with Trump is so completely messed up.
Back in reality, the choices are a) vote for Biden, b) vote for Trump, and c) don’t vote. That’s it, those are your choices.
Just know that options b and c help Trump. You can bend and twist reality in any shape you want, but that is the actual effect of those choices.
So ask yourself, do you want Trump as president?