• floofloof@lemmy.ca
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    9 months ago

    More than 26,000 lethal “mistakes” so far (plus 60,000 non-lethal), and counting…

    But hey, everyone makes mistakes right?

    • Arete@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      You’re including both civilian and soldier deaths (which is what Hamas wants you to do, don’t help them). Best estimates are now 8-10k Hamas soldiers, 16-18k civilians.

      • blargerer@kbin.social
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        9 months ago

        Show me the methodology because that’s basically saying 100% of adult male deaths are Hamas soldiers. Smells like bullshit to me. I’d bet the number is closer to 1k than 10k.

        • ralphio@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Yeah I’m pretty sure this is Israel’s methodology for calculating Hamas deaths, 100% of adult men are soldiers. It’s obviously a lie but I do believe that’s where the number comes from.

        • Arete@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          You think Israel dropped 25,000 bombs, invaded, and has been waging urban combat for 4 months, but has only killed 1,000 Hamas militants? That’s just silly.

          Also Hamas uses child soldiers extensively (including as suicide bombers) so you can drop the “adult” part.

              • EchoCT@lemmy.ml
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                9 months ago

                And the totality of Gaza including children is Hamas to you. Say what you need to. I’m not the one defending murdering children, people under a white flag, woman, aid givers, medics, hospital workers and more.

              • DdCno1@kbin.social
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                9 months ago

                Reminds me of people immediately shouting “GENOCIDE!!!” when the first bombs were dropped on Houthi pirates. It really has lost all meaning and I think that’s deliberate. Actual genocides will be much more difficult for people to accept after this ridiculous propaganda campaign, which is something China and Russia in particular, who are pushing narratives like these through their troll armies, are benefiting from.

                • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  Reminds me of people immediately shouting “GENOCIDE!!!” when the first bombs were dropped on Houthi pirates

                  You apparently misunderstood the order of events. The Yemen genocide has been going on for almost a decade and is what likely radicalized some to commit acts of piracy and terrorism.

                  Not excusing it of course, terrorism is always inexcusable no matter what, just providing context for those like you who thought they just popped up out of nowhere for no reason.

                  It really has lost all meaning

                  That’s what racists say about the word racism.

      • athos77@kbin.social
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        9 months ago

        If Israel isn’t differentiating between civilians and soldiers when they shoot and bomb people, I don’t see why I should.

        • Arete@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          It doesn’t fit your narrative, but the civilian/military casualty numbers are on the high side of normal for urban combat.

          Super weird to defend distributing Hamas propaganda. Helping them hurts Palestinians too, who generally don’t like Hamas.

            • Arete@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              Did I take a position on the genocide question? No.

              I stated 2 facts, which you seem to find inconvenient for your narrative. We don’t have a disagreement, unless you’re disputing them?

          • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            It doesn’t fit your narrative, but the civilian/military casualty numbers are on the high side of normal for urban combat.

            If you use the numbers kindly provided by the IDF, you mean? Don’t they have a pretty substantial motivation to lie?

            • Arete@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              Oh they definitely exaggerate - all parties to a conflict do. I accounted for that by using their estimates from more than a month ago against Hamas’s current casualty counts. I think that’s a fairly even-handed take but I’m sure people will disagree.

              • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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                9 months ago

                Yeah I mean I would definitely disagree because that estimate was mysteriously in line with assuming every single man killed (at that point) was in Hamas. Even saying half of all men killed seems pretty generous

                • Arete@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  Unfortunately I think we need to be drawing from the “children” numbers here. Hamas uses teenage soldiers extensively, and they have every incentive to put them on the front lines and report them under the “dead children” numbers.

                  My personal belief, and feel free to disagree, is that the numbers look something like this:

                  Hamas militants killed: 3000 adults, 5000 children (aged 16 - 18), all male. Totaling 8000.

                  Civilians killed: 5000 children, 5000 women, 8000 men. Totalling 18000.

      • Croquette@sh.itjust.works
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        9 months ago

        It’s only 16-18k death, I almost got outraged there. Anything over 20k makes me mad.

        Thanks for clarifying.

      • ElCanut@jlai.lu
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        9 months ago

        Yet you have no proof for your numbers, while the UN literally said that those from the health ministry of Gaza, so in the 25-30k range, are correct

        • Kalkaline @leminal.space
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          9 months ago

          Not arguing your point, just adding to it.

          The health ministry in Gaza is run by Hamas, full disclaimer, however it’s the best data out there despite coming from a source that could provide some bias. Even if you consider some of those included could be Hamas combatants, the vast majority likely were not, so you’re still trying to justify thousands of innocent civilians deaths because of a disproportionate response to the Hamas attack.

          • ElCanut@jlai.lu
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            9 months ago

            Exactly, and Hamas would probably not be the only source of information in Gaza if Israel didn’t kill dozens of journalists working there

          • davepleasebehave@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            also, because Israel has enforced concentration camp conditions on the people of Gaza, they are well aware of who lives and who does there. they are, unsurprisingly,.not really happy to release their estimates.

        • Arete@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Yeah for total deaths. Mine add up to 26k. These numbers have never been civilian only.

  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    It’s not a war, it’s an ongoing genocide…

    They’re killing anything that moves, and that includes people on their own side occasionally

  • IndustryStandard@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Sometimes you mistake a clearly unarmed civilian waving a white flag for multiple minutes as an enemy. You just never know.

  • BMatthew@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    This is I believe the third verified example of this I have seen, one were Israeli hostages. One time is a mistake, this is not. This is the same country that has a directive that will order the military to kill their own citizens.

    • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
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      9 months ago
      • This guy
      • The Israeli hostages
      • The woman with her grandson holding the white flag

      3 is my count as well.

      • Deceptichum@kbin.social
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        9 months ago

        Once is by accident. Twice is by accident. Three times is by accident.

        That’s how the saying goes, right?

        • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
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          9 months ago

          Fool me once - shame on, shame on you. Fool me… you can’t get fooled again!

          • Someone with a lot of Middle East “Experience”
  • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
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    9 months ago

    Yeah Israel, when your goal is to kill tens of thousands of people or more, you’ll make a few mistakes and kill the “wrong people” on occasion. Maybe try something like… not committing genocidal acts?

  • winterayars@sh.itjust.works
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    9 months ago

    Oh, interesting, because when we were talking about war crimes everyone was like “It’s not war, though!” Hmmm.

  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    They probably thought that it was an escaped hostage trying to return to israel again.