• Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    Only one of the two have constantly invaded other countries

    The People of Tibet might disagree there. But this is a discussion for another Time.

    I’m not pro US either, tho. I just call out evil when I see it. And that’s my Problem with Lemygrad. They seem to believe there are only two sides. I can say America does bad things and China, Russia etc. does bad things. They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes “their” Side has done. And that’s not how we come forward. Evil is Evil is Evil. No matter who does it.

    • Arelin@lemmy.zip
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      11 months ago

      They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes “their” Side has done

      That’s a heavy oversimplification of everything on there… I see the folks on grad being mad about bad decisions by China just the same; they just heavily scrutinize negative news for bias or misinfo, as people should do for everything.

      If you do scrutinize your news and sources, I think it’s only natural that you’d end up being very anti-west/imperialism, and far less anti-China, specially considering the grip western media and news have on the world. The two are just not equivalent at all.

      The People of Tibet might disagree there

      Here’s an example of that. The fact that China’s education system makes sure ~90% of Tibetans can speak their cultural language compared to the ~8% of North Americans that can speak theirs means they’re just not equivalent. The only countries accusing China of such a fucked up crime like cultural repression are western ones with a political/economic interest for doing so. Muslim countries and the global south side with China on this and Xinjiang.

      • Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        You don’t get it. I don’t compare. It is not that is worse than that. China attacked Tibet and conquered their Land. I don’t need to compare this to the US. I don’t care if Country XYZ says it was good. Evil is Evil is Evil. Pull yourself away from comparing. You don’t have to weigh Evil against each other.

        EDIT:

        They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes “their” Side has done.

        You are doing exactly that. You try to argue and justify the annexation of Tibet. You could easily say “Yeah, that was not okay. China invaded and occupied Tibet, this is not okay.” But instead you are trying to compare this to the US and bring up other Countries and what they think. THIS is exactly what I meant.

        • Arelin@lemmy.zip
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          11 months ago

          you are trying to compare this to the US and bring up other Countries and what they think

          Shouldn’t we look at different sources and scrutinize events and claims thoroughly? You seem to be thinking you’re being objective by taking a centrist position on these but this

          China invaded and occupied Tibet

          is a western claim, and exactly what the US and EU wants its citizens to think by drawing a false equivalence between them and their geopolitical rival. Tibet had a popular revolutionary party whose views were in line with the rest of China that wanted China’s help overthrowing the Dalai Lama, under whom slavery and serfdom was common in the region. There absolutely were factions supporting the prior feudal rule, but chalking that up to “China invaded and occupied Tibet” is absurd and extremely misleading. Tibet is an autonomous region now.

          Hell, the Tibetan uprising against the Chinese government later on was organized by the CIA, and the US is open about it and even proud of it now. Here’s a book on that written by a US district judge and a journal by a professor on Tibetan studies. It’s similar to how the US overthrew the democratically elected Mosaddegh in Iran because his policies would benefit Iran instead of the US.

          • Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Again you feel the need to bring up the US. This is all you got, isn’t it? “Hey, Hey, don’t call out my Camp, look at the US. They are bad!”.

            You honestly believe everyone lies? Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, International Campaign for Tibet, Tibetan Centre for Human Rights and Democracy, the UN. All lie? But China tells the truth. You are so far gone it’s unbelievable. You question well documented facts, but you won’t believe that a regime that is notorious for lying won’t lie? You are waaaay too far gone that I, a random Person from the Internet, could ever convince you. I’m just going to block you, you are not worth arguing with any further. You have nothing of value to say I couldn’t read in a Chinese propaganda pamphlet.

          • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Tibet had a popular revolutionary party whose views were in line with the rest of China that wanted China’s help overthrowing the Dalai Lama, under whom slavery and serfdom was common in the region.

            Yes Tibet was a theocratic slave state. But China still invaded and annexed them.

            Was the US invasion of Iraq justified because Saddam was a dictator? If we annexed Iraq and didn’t make them speak English it would be fine?

            • Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              Forget it. He is too far gone. We are just Strangers on the Internet, and he lives inside a paranoid nightmare. I tried my best but got nowhere.

              • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                I can see his side because Tibet was a Theocratic slave state. But he pretends China didn’t invade.

              • DarkThoughts@kbin.social
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                11 months ago

                He’s clearly a tankie. I wonder if lemmy.zip is just as bad as lemmygrad or lemmy.ml.
                I know why I went to kbin though. I just have no desire to directly support those developers.

              • Arelin@lemmy.zip
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                11 months ago

                he lives inside a paranoid nightmare

                Lmao I wouldn’t go that far. But we can’t all see eye-to-eye ig unfortunately.

            • Arelin@lemmy.zip
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              11 months ago

              China invaded and annexed them.

              Again, the popular Tibetan revolutionary party fought the feudal rule and welcomed Chinese intervention; their views were in line with the rest of China, and the autonomous nature of the region while being part of China reflects that.

              the US invasion of Iraq

              Not even comparable. There were no popular pro-US movements fighting Saddam’s rule, and Iraq was destabilized in the first place because of US sanctions, not Saddam’s decisions unlike the feudalism in Tibet. This was purely a strategic invasion to set up military bases and secure oil and resources by making up false claims of WMDs.

              • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                popular Tibetan revolutionary party

                If they were popular, they wouldn’t have needed China to invade. China was supporting them just like the US supported revolutionaries that overthrew their governments.

                There were no popular pro-US movements fighting Saddam’s rule

                The Kurds.

                This was purely a strategic invasion to set up military bases and secure oil and resources by making up false claims of WMDs.

                Their are no us military bases in Iraq and all the oil money goes to Iraq.

                • Arelin@lemmy.zip
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                  11 months ago

                  If they were popular, they wouldn’t have needed China

                  Why wouldn’t commoners in a feudal slave state not want help from a nearby government whose views match their own?

                  just like the US supported revolutionaries that overthrew their governments

                  The US overthrew democratically elected popular governments, like Mosaddegh’s in Iran, or Salvador Allende’s in Iraq, replacing the latter with a military dictatorship, because their policies benefitted their own countries instead of the US.

                  Their are no us military bases in Iraq and all the oil money goes to Iraq.

                  …What? There are still military bases in Iraq even now, and the economic dependence on the US that Iraq is now in is exactly what the US wanted/wants. ExxonMobil, Chevron etc. extracting oil for cheap from a war-torn country that doesn’t have a choice; even CNN admits it.

          • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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            11 months ago

            So are you saying that China didn’t abduct a child in an attempt to exterminate Tibetan culture? Surely there is no way to defend such things and this should be a very easy thing to condemn?

      • DessertStorms@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        Amazing, it only took you 2 comments to land right on genocide denial, unprovoked.
        You’re a tankie, defending other tankies, and tankies aren’t communists, nor are you on the left, since you clearly aren’t in support of freedom and equality for all, never mind the rest of it, just more of the same bullshit - authoritarians co opting leftist ideas and language to grab power. Tale as old as fucking time…

        • Arelin@lemmy.zip
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          11 months ago

          Very mature of you. Brought alot to the discussion.