spoiler
moneyless socialist utopia
I mean, we all know that’s what it is, but I’m pretty sure that’s the first time they’ve said it straight out in universe. And then the plot reminds of it several times as that very thing is put in danger.
there were a couple of times on DS9 when Quark and Nog flippantly refer to the Federation in similar terms, but they’re quick, throwaway lines and easy to miss.
They never afaik used the “s” word though, it was satisfying as a socialist myself to see the term used, even if we all knew what it was anyway.
Ngl it was kinda satisfying.
What did they just imagine cash transactions happening on starships even when they said many times in every franchise that they have evolved past the need for money?
Theres been several times in TOS where people referred to Federation Credits or when Scotty said he “brought a boat”. I think most of us were under the impression that it didn’t go full post scarcity socialist until the replicators were invented.
Scotty said he “brought a boat”
It might just be a figure of speech, like Jake Sisko “selling” his first book.
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“The writing of the newer Trek series constantly contradicts the idea that the Federation has a moral high ground, let alone is an actually socialist society, or that there is any kind of political, let alone revolutionary ideal in the writing room other than “yass diversity”.”
Yeah I agree. I mean Picard even said that money existed again in the Federation (until I guess they said it didn’t in the third season, very confusing) and PIC/DIS/Lower Decks all say the replicators are crap. Actually DIS even said it is basically forcing Starfleet officers to eat their own recycled shit!
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Very well said. I personally prefer TOS-ENT for their more optimistic takes (most of the time) on humanities future than New Trek (I’m not a new Trek hater by any means, I’m just saying what I personally prefer to go back to on re-watches).
I will argue that the Disco bit is more intended to add some subtext that outlines Admiral Vance’s thoughts than just “haha we eat poop.”
I read it as tiredness on Vance’s part-- a sort of signal that yes, in some ways the quality of life under the Emerald Chain is better than the sterile closed environment of the UFP’s remnant. Contrast this with Osyraa’s statement about how she has real apples. He chooses the Federation’s integrity when it comes down to it, but he was genuinely considering throwing the Federation’s legitimacy behind the Chain.
Its a pattern in New Trek. PIC said the replicators make food that tastes like shit, then DIS said they are made from shit! I mean to be fair, even DS9 tried at times to weaken the replicator but it didnt go this far. Writers just tend to hate the concept for some reason.
People complaining about how the replicator’s blandly perfect food and sometimes reliability goes back at least to TNG. It is not new.
Yes writers wrote weaknesses in the replicators back then, which was a continuity issue even back then, but they didnt go as far as saying it tastes like shit and is made from literal shit.
@Reva @OsakaWilson If there’s war, there are refugees. If there are refugees there are wealth discrepancies. If there are wealth discrepancies there will be commerce (under the table or over). If there is commerce there will be money. Seems pretty unavoidable. The Galaxy can be a utopia or it can have war, but it can’t have both. Star Trek has war, therefore… :)
@Reva @OsakaWilson “post scarcity”
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I was more irked that she said the Federation did good throughout the Galaxy. The Federation has always been limited to this Quadrant. Romulans to the left of me, Klingons to the right. The entire premise of Voyager and DS9 was a wormhole to other parts of this galaxy, neither of which have taken place yet. Even the Borg have not spread to other Galaxies yet that I know of.
