The letter seems to be fitting into a pattern of pro-Israel organizations, such as Canary Mission and Betar, targeting critics of Israel’s military actions, as well as supporters of Palestinian self-determination. Betar says it has provided lists of noncitizen protesters to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Department of Homeland Security, and other government agencies, recommending deportation.
Why do you write “Zionist” when it’s not written in the article at all? “Zionist” and “pro-Israel” is not necessarily the same.
Huh? How the heck does that work? If such anti-Israel Zionists exist I definitely haven’t met them.
Well, for the sake of argument I consider myself anti-Israel Zionist in the sense that I oppose the current state of Israel and it’s right-wing government, but I support the general idea of a Jewish state. Does that make sense?
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In a pre-1947 world, would you support the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine? Knowing, of course, that there’s no way of drawing the lines of such a state without including a significant number of Arabs that precludes a state that’s both Jewish and Democratic without ethnic cleansing. The way real-life Israel “solved” this problem was by committing ethnic cleansing, AKA the Nakba.
Ethnostates are okay so long as you agree with their political views?
No. It does not.
Murderous land thieves have no legitimate rights to the land they stole.
While Israel has stolen land from the Palestinians, the Jewish people are still native to the broader region of Levante. Just like the Palestinians are.
Ok and that means Israel is not built on stolen land? Pro-Israel is Zionism. They’re the same fucking thing now.
Any government that murders steals and commits terrorism on innocents like Israel does every single day since the first day it existed is not a legitimate government and not a legitimate state. It was clearly a mistake for the world to recognize Israel as a state. Israels government is illegitimate and needs to be recognized as such.
what is the difference between the two?
Zionism is an ethnonationalist Ideology that says that Israel should exist as a Jewish state. Like all ethnonationalist movements, Zionism also has a strong component of territorial expansionism.
Israel’s founding was absolutely a Zionist project. And Zionism has been a large part of Israeli politics since then. However, there is another school of thought that goes “I don’t care how we got here, but it is 2025, and the state of Israel is a thing that exists, and I support the right of that entity and it’s citizens”.
This is a bit muddled in today’s climate, because the current Israeli leadership has been thoroughly captured by ultra Zionist. As in, Netenyahu’s government is only holding on to power by forming a coalition with far right fringe parties that until a few years ago were a third rail in Israeli politics. Back in 2007, their c now current Minister of National Security, Ben Gvir, was convicted of supporting a terrorist organization.
However, as with every country, people can have a different view towards the country as a whole, and it’s current political state.
thank you for the clarification
Israel does not have to be Zionist Israel.
Now, I’m sure the Palestinians would rather have it that, after WWII, people hadn’t come “home” to settle in the area in the first place, but if it had been handled better, and without, you know, all the genocide, they might have been more accepting of the idea.
Maybe not much, but definitely way more accepting than they are now.
The Palestinians did repeatedly advocate for a unitary secular solution that would give equal rights to everyone. Ben Gurion and the zionist project instead chose partition to setup a causi belli to begin the nakba (Expulsions of Palestinians started in the 1920s, not with the nakba) and establish Israel as a settler Colonialist state.
But we don’t live in a vacuum, and it absolutely is.
No need to put home in quotes. Jews are native to the region of today’s Palestine/Israel as Arabs and Muslims are.
If I lived in your neighborhood and came and kicked you out of your house at gunpoint would that be OK because I am “native to the region”?
What does “native to the region” even mean ethically or legally? “Regions” arent how land ownership works. Its a nonsense term designed to imply ownership where no ownership exists. You should be ashamed of yourself for writing that nonsense.
I just wanted to say that Jews and many Arab ethnicities have historically lived in the region of Levante, which is today’s Israel and Palestine. And therefore both people claim the land to be theirs, which is historically correct in both cases. I wasn’t even implying one of the groups have more of a right to it than the other.
Then build one secular state where everybody get the same threatement. Screw zionism
And if you go further back, we all came from Africa. Who fucking cares?
People were driven from their ancestral homes. I could not care less if the people doing the driving out had a great great great great great great great Uncle that probably lived in that general area. That’s meaningless.
No. Thats not the way land ownership works. Its not the international understanding, the palestinian understanding, or the torah understanding. So where did you pull that understanding from exactly? From your rear, right. As some sort of lame excuse to retroactively justify terrorism and the land theft they terrorize for. You should be ashamed of yourself. And if you are in any civilized country you should be tried and then punished for supporting terrorism. Your views are not OK.
That’s true, Zionism is explicitly about the ethnic cleansing of the native Palestinians and settler colonialism. There has always been Jewish and Christian Palestinians in historic Palestine
That’s simply not true and almost bigotry. You have all the reason and right to hate the Israeli government and their war crimes, but you can’t generalize all Zionism because of the action of the Israeli government.
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Major copium. I think maybe you’ve twisted the definition of “Zionism” into something a little more vague that allows you to continue supporting the thing you want to support without feeling bad.
The person above you’s definition of Zionism is completely accurate.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Zionism
There’s also national socialism. Heard of it?
Zionism has always been a fascist ideology.
Quotes
The Birth of Israel Myths and Realities
10 myths of Israel by Ilan Pappe
Israeli historian Ilan Pappe: ‘This is the last phase of Zionism’
Ethnic Cleansing prior to 1948:
Planned occupation and the beginnings of systemic apartheid:
1967 war: Haaretz, Forward
Israel Martial Law and Defence (Emergency) Regulations practiced in the occupied territories after 1967
Historian Works on the History
Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha
The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
10 Myths About Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)
Adi Callai has done a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized by Zionism during its history
Okay, antisemite.
Anti-zionism is not Antisemitism. Your conflation of the two is genuinely antisemitic.
Zionism is anti-Semitic at it’s core, it other-izes Jewish people, and justifies the violent settler colonialim of Israel as in the defense of all Jewish people, which only serves to further fuel genuine Antisemitism at the expense of Jewish people globally. Zionism is also an inherently fascist ideology. The ethnic cleansing of the native people of Palestine has always been fundamental since it’s inception as a colonialist movement.
The quotes were because “home” both is and isn’t the right word. There are a lot of people in this world who might still think of the house they grew up in as “home” on some level, but in many cases, that property is in the hands of strangers now.
For example, I have a relative who not only lived in but was born in a house that remained in the family until a couple of decades ago, and I think they’d dearly love to be able to go back there. Even so, I don’t think the current occupants would be best pleased if my relative decided to go “home” without some kind of arrangement, especially if they decided they were going to move in.
Feel free to generalise or pick apart this metaphor.
Fair enough, I agree.
Oh fantastic! My ancestors are mostly Scottish, I didn’t realise when I moved here to Scotland that I could just TAKE some land! Off to appropriate my next door neighbour’s back garden, they aren’t using it much. Next week: taking over the house my great great grandfather built. It’s by the beach!
Yes, it’s the same. If you want to educate yourself about the topic read Israeli historian Ilan Pappe or Palestinian philosopher Mohammed El-Kurd.
This was a crosspost, didn’t realize it was a modified headline, though considering where I’m cross-posting it from I really should be more mindful of such things LMAO
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You should also link the original post and state it’s cross-posted.
ie: cross-posted from (permalink of original source)
Nah, for one, that “cross-posted from” thing is dumb AF when there’s a dedicated UI button/link that automatically shows when a link is detected elsewhere on the Lemmy-verse.
That’s how you end up with cluttered posts like:
Cross-posted from:
For two, I’m cross-posting content from .ml comms to the nearest non-.ml comm as part of ongoing boycotting efforts to reduce .ml’s influence to make defederation an easier decision for admins everywhere because of the .ml admins insistence to push their Tankie ideology through various means from censorship of views critical of Authoritarian regimes such as Russia or China to allowing propaganda outlets (such as RT) to flourish
Adding a low-friction link like that runs counter to that.
Holy moly, I had no idea it’s that bad. Thanks for the link.